Pino's quote

[The Bid]

Larry Jones knows, the guy is sharp

Pino should know better

Adore the Gold 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Scurlogue Champ]

I'm definitely not saying they can't or won't finish in the money with these tactics.

I just think they are sending and letting the chips fall as they may.

If Hard Spun is superior, he will skip away and win.

All this stuff about the pace not being very tough is what I am debating. These guys are sending in my opinion. And the pace will be hot.

This "taking back" stuff is for the press.

After that work this horse has no shot. He's done. Might as well ship him to Delaware and run him in the ***** Fart Stakes.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I think there's a difference between knowing what you are doing at Delaware Park on a Tuesday and on the first Saturday in May after you have given about 200 interviews and brought all your friends and family there with every last one of them believing you will win.

If Hard Spun does exactly what I think he will do, Jones and Pino won't be the first to succumb to it or the last. Hard Spun is no Smarty Jones.

I think Elliot could have ridden him backwards and that horse would have done the exact thing he did.
Without a doubt, I would send him to the front and pray. You think Jones and Pino are just sitting there saying, "man, we got this. we know exactly what we are doing?"

The Derby is a powerful animal...and it has made more than a few trainers and jockeys do things differently than they normally would.

This I agree with; however the horse rated kindly in the Lanes End off a bullet work without much work from Pino.

Jones is a very sharp trainer and Pino is a competent jock. I'd rather have him on there than someone new.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

After that work this horse has no shot. He's done. Might as well ship him to Delaware and run him in the ***** Fart Stakes.

Totally incorrect. The work has nothing to do with it. If he's short, it's because of the poor decision not to run in between the Lanes End and the Blue Grass.

Also recall the track was a highway yesterday, it was almost a second fast at 5F than normal.

Originally Posted by philcski

Totally incorrect. The work has nothing to do with it. If he's short, it's because of the poor decision not to run in between the Lanes End and the Blue Grass.

Also recall the track was a highway yesterday, it was almost a second fast at 5F than normal.

Of course. That work is just the last straw in a handful of them. The connections have to arguably be one of the worst owner-trainer combos in the history of the game. It's laughable what they've done to this horse.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Of course. That work is just the last straw in a handful of them. The connections have to arguably be one of the worst owner-trainer combos in the history of the game. It's laughable what they've done to this horse.

Oh, I agree, the owner sucks. He sticks his nose in way too much. I think you're cutting down Jones a little unfairly though; the guy is a good horseman and unfortunately due to the nature of the business must sometimes succumb to the owner's decisions.

Originally Posted by philcski

Oh, I agree, the owner sucks. He sticks his nose in way too much. I think you're cutting down Jones a little unfairly though; the guy is a good horseman and unfortunately due to the nature of the business must sometimes succumb to the owner's decisions.

Yeah Jones is a good trainer and really he's not to blame. I can't say he deserves criticism because really who would risk losing a horse like Hard Spun? It would be nice to see Jones punch the owner in the throat after the race though.

[The Bid]

That race at TWP doesnt translate. Big problem with the poly is going to be prepping a derby horse on it. Its crazy to train a horse over poly, then run at CHD. I dont think Hardspuns run in the Lanes End can be used as a gauge, and I dont think hes a superior animal. I think he will finish up the track. 10th or worse

Jones is cowboy enough to punch him in the throat

Originally Posted by The Bid

That race at TWP doesnt translate. Big problem with the poly is going to be prepping a derby horse on it. Its crazy to train a horse over poly, then run at CHD. I dont think Hardspuns run in the Lanes End can be used as a gauge, and I dont think hes a superior animal. I think he will finish up the track. 10th or worse

Jones is cowboy enough to punch him in the throat

I think Street Sense has a huge advantage training at Churchill. It's going to be interesting to see how the Keeneland shippers fare over the course. I'm not convinced they'll be fit enough to contend down the stretch.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I think Street Sense has a huge advantage training at Churchill. It's going to be interesting to see how the Keeneland shippers fare over the course. I'm not convinced they'll be fit enough to contend down the stretch.

How fit was Giacomo when he won?

I don't that being 'fit' is the real concern... how they handle the CD surface might be, though.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

How fit was Giacomo when he won?

I don't that being 'fit' is the real concern... how they handle the CD surface might be, though.

I'd say he was pretty fit.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Bid

That race at TWP doesnt translate. Big problem with the poly is going to be prepping a derby horse on it. Its crazy to train a horse over poly, then run at CHD. I dont think Hardspuns run in the Lanes End can be used as a gauge, and I dont think hes a superior animal. I think he will finish up the track. 10th or worse

Jones is cowboy enough to punch him in the throat

Damn right he is!

Check the replay of the Lecomte if you need a quality dirt start. I'd be shocked if he finished 10th or worse...

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by philcski

Damn right he is!

Check the replay of the Lecomte if you need a quality dirt start. I'd be shocked if he finished 10th or worse...

Izzie's Halo hasn't exactly lit up the track since then. Makeithapencaptain came back to run 3rd at Sam Houston. Teuflesberg was the best horse he beat there and he had a poor start that compromised him. It was a pretty poor field he beat there.

[MarkyD]

Man what's with all the HS/connections negativity ??

The horse goes 57 3/5, so we jump on Pino and Porter.
If the horse had a bad work then you probably trash HS.

I think Porter was honnest, horse don't like it we won't send him. You have around 10 horses that have no business running this weekend, but their connections believe in their horse so they send them.

I think this comes down to all you people have HS scratched from your tickets and now with his great work today you have to find other reasons to keep HS off your tickets.

I just don't feel like bashing a jock and an owner who have been waiting years to get their first starter is right. Put yourself in their shoes and think about it. It's nice ot have new faces every year.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by MarkyD

Man what's with all the HS/connections negativity ??

The horse goes 57 3/5, so we jump on Pino and Porter.
If the horse had a bad work then you probably trash HS.

I think Porter was honnest, horse don't like it we won't send him. You have around 10 horses that have no business running this weekend, but their connections believe in their horse so they send them.

I think this comes down to all you people have HS scratched from your tickets and now with his great work today you have to find other reasons to keep HS off your tickets.

I just don't feel like bashing a jock and an owner who have been waiting years to get their first starter is right. Put yourself in their shoes and think about it. It's nice ot have new faces every year.

I'm not bashing at all, what I am trying to do is exactly what you asked. "Put myself in their shoes."

I would send and I think that is what they will do. If Hard Spun loses, I'm not going to think any less of Jones and Pino. It will be on the horse. They are going to give him the best shot to win and I think it will be on the front.

Along with about 4 or 5 other horses whose connections feel the same way.

My argument is the pace. Some think it will be slow if Hard Spun and company are out there, but I doubt this assertion.

I think it is racehorse fast, because the ones on the front are going to be running racehorse times trying to get out there.

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Was thinking of picking him "on top"...but starting to question that move.
On pedigree alone...he's one of the top five
his connections scare me the most going into the race.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

It is easy for me to sit back and say I would take Cowtown Cat, Hard Spun, Teuflesburg, etc... off the pace and let them make the overused "one good run."

But this guy Jones has never been to a Derby. He was just at Ellis Park last year. Trained for 25 years and hasn't even been close.

This is his shot man. Pino the same. If he currently is thinking that they will lay off the pace and let the race shape up, I think by Friday night he will change his tune.

I know one thing. If I were him, I would want to see that ****er out front and unhampered by the 19 other runners. If he really has that one horse, would he want him crowded in with 10 others at the turn?

He will send and lead at the turn, possibly the 1/8th pole.

I think this happens a lot in the Derby.

"By god, I've got one shot and I'll be damned if I want to watch the ****er never placed better than eighth. Just give him a shot to win. Put him out front."

i believe i saw the other day that the last four years straight, a first-time derby trainer won the thing.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff

Was thinking of picking him "on top"...but starting to question that move.
On pedigree alone...he's one of the top five
his connections scare me the most going into the race.

why did i suddenly have a flash back to risen star?? some horses are good enough that they do their best in spite of (rather than because of) their handling. is he one of them? guess we'll find out saturday.