How to ruin a horse: Jamie Sanders Edition

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Come off it... everyone on here knows what a huge fan I am of Teuflesberg... but let's be real here. How did he look in the Blue Grass to YOU? He looked staggering exhausted to me coming down the stretch! Geesh. Unreal.

Looked to me like he hated the left hand whip from Prado. Then really how bad are Street Sense, Dominican, Zanjero, Great Hunter that they can Barely or not even beat a staggering exhausted Teuflesberg at 9f??

OH that's right...polytrack...we can toss all those guys runs...but not Teuflesberg...duplicity is as duplicity does!!

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt with Teuflesberg and the Derby. But the older turf race? Please. She runs one horse after another over its head. That's why she's winning less than five percent of her starts. She certainly hasn't accomplished enough to merit the kind of attention that she's attracted.

AS I said, I know nothing about Sanders. All I know is what I've seen in Teuflesberg's 4 races this year and he would be far from the worst entrant I've seen in the Derby. I'm not saying he's the winner or top 10 even, but I think he is better than several entrants ahead of him. I'm looking at the this horse alone...not what she's done with her entire fleet. This horse has been handled fine this year.

I think they should run him in the Arc.

[Danzig]

hmmm....

fickle humans. some think horses don't run enough, others too much. take a risk, but then they're in over their head...

i think i'll fall over dead and make one of those THUD noises that morty likes so much if i ever see a consensus thread that someone did something just right.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I think they should run him in the Arc.

Only on a yielding course! Wire to wire baby!

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by Danzig

hmmm....

fickle humans. some think horses don't run enough, others too much. take a risk, but then they're in over their head...

i think i'll fall over dead and make one of those THUD noises that morty likes so much if i ever see a consensus thread that someone did something just right.

If someone actually did something right we'd have nothing to talk about here!!

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

If someone actually did something right we'd have nothing to talk about here!!

lol

nah, because there's no way everyone would agree that something was done just right!!

[ArlJim78]

I think the Woodford Reserve would be a perfect spot for Tueflesberg.
Maybe Time Squared will go along for the ride as well.

[Danzig]

hell, if cobalt blue can run in the derby, why not sent teuf to the woodford??

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Danzig

hell, if cobalt blue can run in the derby, why not sent teuf to the woodford??

How often has the Woodford Reserve been used as a alternative for horses that can't get in to the Derby? I don't know the answer, I'm asking.
My guess is not very often.

If you have been pointing your horse to the derby, a 10F dirt race restricted to 3yo's, and you can't get in because of a lack of earnings, I have serious doubts that a reasonable alternative is a GR1 turf race for older horses.

[blackthroatedwind]

I'm happy she keeps running Teuflesburg, and she's been rewarded, but even SAYING she is thinking about the Woodford Reserve just makes her look bad. Hopefully she will learn from this recent episode and perhaps not open herself up to ridicule in the future. She hasn't been around this kind of exposure in the past, and while she may be enjoying it, in time she will learn to be more prudent ( I hope ).

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

How often has the Woodford Reserve been used as a alternative for horses that can't get in to the Derby? I don't know the answer, I'm asking.
My guess is not very often.

If you have been pointing your horse to the derby, a 10F dirt race restricted to 3yo's, and you can't get in because of a lack of earnings, I have serious doubts that a reasonable alternative is a GR1 turf race for older horses.

I personally don't care if she runs him in the Derby, I would certainly not be able to say no if I had a horse like that who might possibly get in.

But what you said is exactly why this concept is so laughable. Most agree that the horse has no shot in the Derby whatsoever. So if he can't handle straight three year olds going ten furlongs on dirt, how on earth is he going to handle older horses in one of the most prestigious early season turf Grade I races? That the Woodford is a viable alternative to the Derby is ridiculous. If he can't get in, what's the problem with waiting for the Preakness instead of throwing him to the wolves against horses he has even less of a chance against than he does against those in the Derby?

[King Glorious]

At first, I couldn't stop laughing. Then I thought about it more. Let's see:

Kentucky Derby=no chance in hell.
Woodford=no chance in hell.

What's the difference? He's not going to win either race. I actually think that because of the conditions of the Derby, he'd look worse there than in the Woodford. He'd be running 10f, which he can't get unless he's got a van. He'd be facing more horses and probably more pace pressure, which won't be beneficial to him. He'd be doing it at equal weights, which gives him no advantage. In the Woodford, he'd be more likely to get a pace scenario that he likes than in the Derby. He'd also be in there with a very low weight. He might have only 110 lbs or so in that race. The distance of the race is better for him than the Derby too. If he can just about beat the 2yo champ and current Derby second choice (Street Sense) in a race that was run like a turf race, he might be able to run with horses like Einstein and Better Talk Now in the Woodford if he's able to control the race like he did the Blue Grass. Do I expect that he'd have a shot to win the Woodford? No I don't. But I think that if the choice were between the Derby and the Woodford, he'd have less chance of embarrassment in the Woodford.

[The Bid]

He would have a very good chance in the Derby. The horse that will go favorite beat him by a head. Hes got a big edge on experience, and hes coming into the race right. Why would he not have a chance? Last time I checked NONE of the horses going to the gate have ran a mile and a quarter. Its funny to hear everyone armchair QB, then bitch on other posts about horses being retired early, and raced sparingly. I know one thing, Im glad you guys arent training him.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Bid

He would have a very good chance in the Derby. The horse that will go favorite beat him by a head. Hes got a big edge on experience, and hes coming into the race right. Why would he not have a chance? Last time I checked NONE of the horses going to the gate have ran a mile and a quarter. Its funny to hear everyone armchair QB, then bitch on other posts about horses being retired early, and raced sparingly. I know one thing, Im glad you guys arent training him.

Saying you don't like his chances in the derby is not the same as bitching about horses being retired early. they are separate arguments. I don't see anyone complaining about racing frequency.

Saying that he has as good a chance as any because he was only a head back of the favorite is the worst rationale I've ever heard. It totally ignores some some very obvious circumstances that brought about that head loss and that would make it unlikely that he would have been in the same zip code as the winner in the derby.

[Bobby Fischer]

Good horse for cheap dirt or turf or poly miles.
Not all that fast but needs to lead.
a mile or 8.5 is the limit.
Prado couldn't win with the horse in the bluegrass after getting a dream pace, a surface edge over SS and GH, and swinging out into horses paths - says the horse isn't that good. Really needs to get a nice start to succeed and usually has gate trouble so that somewhat limits this one.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Its funny to hear everyone armchair QB, then bitch on other posts about horses being retired early, and raced sparingly. I know one thing, Im glad you guys arent training him.

You've missed the point. Nobody is castigating Sanders for wanting to run him in the Derby. He belongs in the Derby just as much as any of the others who have also-ran written all over them because he earned his way there.

It is the ludicrous suggestion that the Woodford Reserve is a logical or viable alternative if excluded from the Derby that is in question. It would be like Bill Kaplan stating that if Imawildncrazyguy doesn't make it in the field, that they will just wait for the Breeders' Cup Turf. It makes no sense to jump from one to the other. Dropping the horse into a race on a surface he's never run on against older seasoned horses in one of the premier early season turf races because the Derby is oversubscribed makes no rational sense.

[pmayjr]

If Teuflesburg does run in the Woodforde reserve, he's not completely hopeless. Here's why: Who was that horse that looked completely hopeless in the BC Mile last year? Silver Tree? Silver Wagon? Badge of Silver? Silver Axe? One of those "Silver" horses. His turf efforts were dull and he was in against some tough company. And he got 4th... somehow... still boggles the mind actually.

So who says Teuflesburg couldn't finish mid-pack in that race lol?

[King Glorious]

Obviously, the Crown Royal on Friday would be a better option. Or the Lone Star Derby. There are plenty of better options than either the Derby or the Woodford, or the Preakness. But if they were intent on it either being the Derby or the Woodford, I think he'd make a better showing in the later.

[sumitas]

He should clealry be trained up to the Preakness. His connections are just riding his coat tails for whatever they can get out of him. Embarrasing I think.