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#1
10-14-2006, 09:50 AM
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Not one of these horses has close to the pedigree, conformation, and race record of Bernardini. Not even close. Some on your list were not too bad either. Just to let you know, the mares have a little to do with it too. A horse like Bernardini, mainly because of his pedigree on top and bottom, will attract nothing but the best. Last edited by georgewashington : 10-14-2006 at 09:52 AM. 
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#2
10-14-2006, 10:48 AM
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I keep looking at the pedigree of Bernardini and I'm frankly confounded by all these claims of "best pedigree ever".....I see nothing that I don't see in most stakes level thoroughbreds. AP Indy (who I'm not in love with as some "super sire") is known for his pedigree...Seattle Slew atop the great Secretariat broodmare Weekend Surprise. Good enough! But his dam side leaves me less than excited...Cara Rafaela is the daughter of Quiet American (ho hum) so you get the Fappiano (double ho hum), Mr P, RAN line that until this year was considered a kiss of death for the Derby...Oil Fable, Cara's dam out of The Bid (not a rousing success at stud). What's all the fuss?????
__________________
"Always be yourself...unless you suck!"
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#3
10-14-2006, 10:59 AM
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How you don't love AP Indy is pretty remarkable. He is a Seattle Slew out of a Secretariat Mare. It looks like he will have sired 2 of the last 4 Horses of the Year.
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#4
10-14-2006, 11:13 AM
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__________________
"Always be yourself...unless you suck!"
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#5
10-14-2006, 11:21 AM
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He may not have enough races under his belt when he retires to be an "all time great", but you cant say that he is not the total package. Great breeding, confirmation... he has it all. Oh yea and 3 grade 1 wins and 2 grade 2 wins in 7 starts doesnt hurt either.
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#6
10-14-2006, 11:28 AM
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Again, don't put words into my mouth...I never said the pedigree was bad, I simply question those claiming it's somehow superior to all others...simply isn't so! I listed three horses with imo better pedigrees, I could if I wanted to take the time probably list a dozen or more. Bernardini's confirmation, movement and racing prowess were NOT the topic here...only his pedigree! I have never said he wasn't a special horse!
__________________
"Always be yourself...unless you suck!"
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#7
10-14-2006, 12:30 PM
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Citation ... Coaltown ... Hill Prince ... Tim Tam ... Nadir ... Sword Dancer ... Bald Eagle ... Jaipur ... Ridan ... Never Bend ... Bold Lad ... Successor ... Arts And Letters ... Personality ... Riva Ridge ... Sham ... Wajima ... Affirmed ... Spectacular Bid ... Devil's Bag ... Spend A Buck ... Alysheba ... Ferdinand ... Easy Goer ... Risen Star ... Criminal Type ... Holy Bull ... Cigar ... Skip Away ... Silver Charm ... Free House ... Real Quiet ... Victory Gallop ... Artax ...? Is that what you're saying?
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#8
10-13-2006, 09:59 PM
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The poster who "guaranteed" that Bernardini will be a success as a stallion ... is just a starry-eyed youngster ... who's aware that he knows absolutely nothing about thoroughbred racing ... but ... ... at least he asked a real authority on the game ... me ... for help. Give him a little credit for wanting to learn ... won't you?
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#9
10-13-2006, 10:10 PM
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That's a distorted list. Some horses never had a chance . . . Dr. Fager for one. And the final chapter on some horses has yet to be written . . . Conquistador Cielo is an example.
Before Bernardini, how many Triple Crown races had the progeny of AP Indy won? Zero. Yet AP Indy was bred to the very best mares, his offspring sold for the highest prices, and his offspring was sent to the very best barns. Yet for Triple Crown races he was less than 1 for 1000 or so. Now he's about 1 for 1000. Depends on how you define a failure. Maybe at $300,000 AP Indy could be defined as a failure too. Some people say Grindstone is a failure. Yet his offspring won a Triple Crown race before AP Indy's offspring did. Think about that. $5,000 fee for Grindstone vs. $300,000 fee for AP Indy.
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#12
10-14-2006, 11:45 AM
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... you cite two ... neither of whom remotely established a male line or had a sizable string of graded stakes winners. They were failures as stallions. The only name on my original list that I would withdraw is Ack Ack ... whose male line still exists ... albeit by a thread. I'm defining success by racing performance of their offspring ... and the establishment of a male line. Financial success doesn't count ... because most of that occurs immediaitely on syndication ... and disappears when the kids can't run.
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