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#1
12-11-2009, 12:10 PM
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No love for Sweet Catomine? "You" and "Tempera" were both before I started following racing closely, so I'm not sure how they compare. I realize Sweet Catomine's campaign wasn't that lengthy, but her BC juvy filly win was really eye-catching. 
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#2
12-11-2009, 12:15 PM
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good call
__________________
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#3
12-11-2009, 12:52 PM
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NT
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#4
12-11-2009, 12:55 PM
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But then I remembered who trained Tempera, and reconsidered. I'm no fan of that trainer, but he's light years better now than he was back then.
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#5
12-11-2009, 04:23 PM
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She has a case for the 4th spot. I certainly favor You though. You ran 4 different Beyers between 97 and 107 as a 2yo filly...and raced against INCREDIBLE competition all year long. Sweet Catomine only had a single Beyer higher than 91 as a 2yo filly .. and that was her real nice 3+ length victory in the BC Juvie Fillies over Balletto and Runway Model. Balletto (the horse) never won another race. Balletto (the troll) used a picture of a Runway Model and called it herself in her fine trolling of these boards.
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#6
12-15-2009, 04:37 PM
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#7
12-11-2009, 01:03 PM
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#8
12-11-2009, 01:26 PM
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Point Given would be #1 for me.
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#9
12-11-2009, 02:19 PM
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I haven't had a chance to think about some of these "divisions," but one notable omission: Cesario in the 3YO filly turfer division.
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#10
12-11-2009, 04:12 PM
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Cesario's lone start here was a hugely impressive win in the American Oaks. Melhor Ainda finished 2nd at 6/5 odds. She returned to run 3rd by a neck to Angera and than was 7th beaten 5 lengths in the Flower Bowl. She never won a Graded Stake race after. The 3rd place finisher in that American Oaks was Singhalese..she was still elidgible for N1X alw races. That field just doesn't compare well with the fields Banks Hill, Ouija Board, Goldikova and Six Perfections beat in Breeders Cup races. Banks Hill demolished a field in the Breeders Cup Filly and Mare Turf by 5.5 lengths and ran a mind boggling 112 Beyer. Ouija Board absolutely toyed with the field in her 3yo Breeders Cup F and M Turf win. Goldikova and Six Perfections both beat males in the Breeders Cup Mile as a 3yo.
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#11
12-11-2009, 04:15 PM
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apopleptic would be the word used to describe him if he saw it!
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#12
12-11-2009, 04:39 PM
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Point Givens easy at 1 and Drugs is a bit confused here, Bernardini 2....
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#14
12-11-2009, 04:58 PM
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Anyone of seven or eight have great cases ... and that doesn't include Barbaro. Curlin - a 2-time Horse of the Year - was a horse that I was surprised didn't make it. I had him 5th .. and if anyone put him 1st I wouldn't argue much. I think everyone has a built in bias that favors the 2nd half of the year in each division ... and they rightly should. However, the 3yo male division is the one division where I think as much or more emphasis should be placed on the first half of the season as it is the second half. No one was any more against Smarty Jones in the Triple Crown series than I was .. I badly underestimated his ability to get a distance! And few horses ever had fans as annoying as Smarty Jones fans. Smarty Jones won a very rapid Rebel Stakes over Purge. Purge totally blew out fields in fast wins in the Peter Pan, Jim Dandy, and Cigar Mile. Smarty Jones won a very fast Ark Derby over Borrego. Smarty Jones toyed with a solid enough field in the Kentucky Derby. If you want to say the wet track helped speed ... in that case it helped a very solid horse in Lion Heart a lot more. How much did the wet track in this years Derby help speed? Smarty Jones Preakness win was a mind boggling performance. 118 Beyer .. 11.5 length victory .. and left a trio of future Grade 1 winners murdered in his wake. It visually looked a little too much like Funny Cide's 9+ length romp over Midway Road and Scrimshaw to appreciate it. All this from a horse who, as a 2yo, ran an insane figure despite breaking slow from the rail in his only stakes try sprinting. I don't think anyone sane can possibly watch the Belmont and not conclude that SJ ran without a doubt a far superior race to everyone else. He had to fight on the lead with Purge early - easily dispose of Purge after 6 furlongs - have a 7f Grade 1 Malibu winner in Rock Hard Ten make a big and insanely pre-mature move at him ... which he repelled shockingly effortless. He ran a spectacular race for 11 furlongs .. and a dream trip next out Travers winner was able to grind him down when he hit a wall and stopped in the last furlong. After 10fs in the Belmont: Smarty Jones 1st by 3.5 lengths Birdstone 2nd by 3.5 lengths Rock Hard Ten 3rd by 5 lengths Eddington 4th by 7 lengths Royal Assault 5th by 15 lengths It wasn't totally lost on me either that Smarty Jones was trained by John Servis and ridden by Stewart Elliot. Not exactly a wizardly trainer and a competent jock. Still, if someone put Curlin 1st and Smarty Jones 5th .. I wouldn't argue that much.
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#15
12-11-2009, 06:33 PM
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__________________
please use generalizations and non-truths when arguing your side, thank you
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#16
12-12-2009, 09:25 AM
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I do agree, however, that Smarty faced much tougher competition than did Point Given. Beating up on I Love Silver and Touch Tone is a little less impressive than defeating the quality 3yos Smarty faced. It is a tough call.
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#17
12-12-2009, 05:39 PM
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Point Given gives nothing at all away to Smarty Jones on competition faced IMO.
He was an absolute ox ... and I'd surely give him an edge over SJ at 10fs and beyond. PG wasn't as tactically gifted though ... you look at him running 5th by 11 lengths in the Derby ... and that race had a lot to do with him being taken out of his game and way closer to a very fast pace then he needs to be against that quality of speed horses that were in that years Derby. I'm confident Point Given would have had a great deal of trouble beating SJ at 8.5 furlongs and probably even 9f in a fairly run race. Tiznow finished his 3yo season with Beyers of 115-114-119-116 ... while traveling from Del Mar, La Downs, Santa Anita, Churchill. He didn't break his maiden until after the Preakness in his 3rd try. I think he's a clear-cut #1 choice if you show that built in bias to the 2nd half of the season... but way too many 3yos are burned out from tough early campaigns.
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#18
12-18-2009, 08:42 PM
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#19
12-18-2009, 09:21 PM
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#20
12-18-2009, 09:42 PM
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Oh. My. God. This one is truly worthy of it's own thread. Pepper's Pride rated above both Congaree and Medaglia D' Oro. Tears Jerry. Tears!
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