Is it just me or is Godolphin winning everything

Originally Posted by brockguy

godolphin are upset that coolmore doesnt support their stallions (i.e, they dont buy their offspring) so godolphin did the same to coolmore. ironic considering their best horse last year was by a coolmore stallion!

I'm guessing you're referring to Shamardal..yep, Giant's Causeway colt..

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I would be more careful about what I describe as a " fact ", and I think the actual price was more like 60-70%, but we're on the same page.

$7-8 million....if it was a legit transaction I believe Darley would own him and would have paid $13 million or so for him...lets just say I have a strong feeling

[liamc7]

Originally Posted by Seattleallstar

"Coolmore" has already done well, Michael Tabor and Derrick Smith have done very well.

Thunder Gulch
Left Bank
Adieu
Jburg

just to name a few

Because you see Tabor & Smiths names more frequently in American racing the main people behind Coolmore are John and Susan Magnier,Mrs Magnier is the daughter of the first maestro of Ballydoyle Vincent OBrien who actually trained the last English triple crown winner Nijinsky back in the early 70s.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

True, but any trainer is dangerous with goiod horses in his barn....look at Eoin Harty, who I think is an absolute joke as a trainer...might be a nice guy, but he merely masquerades as a horse trainer, yet that hasn't stopped Dubai Escapade....I love betting against Harty because the public will bet him down and he is a horrible horseman..

Joel,
How exactly is he supposed to be a "horseman" when everything he gets from Dubai is ripped form him and sent over there for the winter? Are you serious? A horseman takes a young horse and develops it. What Harty has had going on is nowhere near that. he gets horses, and the better they do the quicker they are on a plane to Dubai. I just don't see how he is supposed to deal with that.

[liamc7]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

True, but money will prevail over the ong term...I've seen the trend move more and more towards Darley, especially this year....Coolmore runs a smarter operation because they understnd racing better than Darley does....Demi O'Byrne is a genius at picking out horses...unbelievable talent that guy has...he is a god and the brains behind that entire operation...he does a lot better than Ferguson with less resources.

The bottomline here is that Darley will ultimately pay more to be better....Coolmore actually has limits...Darley is the only irrational business in our industry that has no limits on what they will or can pay for a horse(s).

Why do you think the Sheiks dont get along with Coolmore,Coolmore have been buying and out bidding Darley for years,example Montjeu,&Hurricane Run

Originally Posted by oracle80

Joel,
How exactly is he supposed to be a "horseman" when everything he gets from Dubai is ripped form him and sent over there for the winter? Are you serious? A horseman takes a young horse and develops it. What Harty has had going on is nowhere near that. he gets horses, and the better they do the quicker they are on a plane to Dubai. I just don't see how he is supposed to deal with that.

I have two words (really have way more but two will do)....AP WARRIOR...enough said....I crushed him in the first race that Sherriffs had him because "Harty off" is a very powerful angle....it is almost as powerful as "Al Stall-off" or "Keith Desormeaux-off" (Cajun trainer)....strong angles that will be included in my book one day.....just like "Rick Dutrow-On" and "Cole Norman-On" are also powerful angles...

Harty is a fraud IMO...not to be harsh because I'm sure he's a nice guy...just because you came from the Baffert school of training doesn't mean that you are a good horsemen..

Originally Posted by liamc7

Why do you think the Sheiks dont get along with Coolmore,Coolmore have been buying and out bidding Darley for years,example Montjeu,&Hurricane Run

Because O'Byrne is a sharper horsemen..plain and simple...he privately purchased Hurricane Run...there was no bidding war...he saw the goods and went after him

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by liamc7

Why do you think the Sheiks dont get along with Coolmore,Coolmore have been buying and out bidding Darley for years,example Montjeu,&Hurricane Run

This is not the source of the friction.

[Seattleallstar]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I have two words (really have way more but two will do)....AP WARRIOR...enough said....I crushed him in the first race that Sherriffs had him because "Harty off" is a very powerful angle....it is almost as powerful as "Al Stall-off" or "Keith Desormeaux-off" (Cajun trainer)....strong angles that will be included in my book one day.....just like "Rick Dutrow-On" and "Cole Norman-On" are also powerful angles...

Harty is a fraud IMO...not to be harsh because I'm sure he's a nice guy...just because you came from the Baffert school of training doesn't mean that you are a good horsemen..

Harty a fraud???...lol

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by oracle80

But they won't have any champions in the Us this year.

I am going to make a bold statement and say that Bernardini may just be the best dirt horse in the world, and if he continues to run races in the form he showed in the Preakness, no one is going to beat him...not even America's top older horses. The only American horse that stood a chance against him was our lovely Barbaro. Now, the only horse that may stand against him if he keeps running in his current form is Darley's other horse Discreet Cat. SNS and Brother Derek can't beat Bernardini. I feel that he really have a weak older horse division here this year. Flower Alley is going to have to show me something to give me some hope.

The Darley stable still hasn't unleashed one of my personal favorites, Henny Hughes.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by oracle80

It was a great race. But to be beat elders in the BCC is another story. I personally think Flower Alley will slay all comers when he returns and I think the late comeback is by design. I think he wins the Whitney, the JCGC, and the BCC. His talent is immense, and his BCC as a 3yo against older truly unappreciated.

Todd better have that horse cranked if he is going to beat the Sheik's horses. Personally, I would love for one of our US horses to be able to beat the likes of Bernardini and Discreet Cat, but it is going to be tough. The Darley stable is very, very deep this year. I really don't think FA is going to be good enough...we may need another Ghostzapper! Maybe Todd knew the battle that was coming, and that is why he waited to start Flower Alley so late in the year?

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Discreet Cat will race in the Dwyer and Haskell - more than likely, and Bernardini will go Jim Dandy and Travers....the Haskell and Travers are both the same weekend and I think Darley has a GREAT chance of winning both of them...the only scare I have right now is Sinister Minister if he is lone speed in the Haskell but horses like Sweetnorthernsaint can't beat Discreet Cat IMO..

As for the Travers, Bernardini will tower over those horses...Jazil, Bluegrass Cat, Sunriver and Steppenwolfer, etc. couldn't warm him up if they wanted to...somebody else will have to emerge late to be good enough to beat Bernardini..

Sinsiter Minister is a very, very interesting horse. I hope he is okay after his poor Derby performance, and we see him come back to his Bluegrass form. He is a very talented horse. However, he is a "freaky horse" and that intrigues me. May be able to make some money off of him at high odds later on...

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Based on speed figures, and since Afleet Alex didn't race after the Belmont that is all we have, it is far from clear that Afleet Alex was better than the Flower Alley we saw in Saratoga and the BC. While I tend to agree that had he stayed healthy, and logically progressed, Afleet Alex would have been the better of the two, but at best that margin would have been minimal.

Don't even bother attempting to use the Derby as an example, as not only did Flower Alley improve immensely off his Derby performance, he also ran exceptionally well in that race. He was forced to make a suicidal premature move when Chavez sent him into a drive on the backstretch and then got caught behind the tiring Spanish Chesnut. His performance was clearly an indication of good things to come.

Flower Alley was never the horse Afleet Alex was, and he will never be. Afleet Alex was going to be one of the best had he not been injured. We should be very thankful that we got to see flashes of his greatness on the track. This horse had the most impressive/insane late kick that I have ever seen in horse racing. His move in the Preakness before the incident with Scrappy T, and in the Belmont Stakes were legendary. I cannot remember a horse, and I don't think we will see one in a long time, that had that much of an intense late kick. It was as if he was shot out of a cannon. He could fly. I miss my Alex.

Afleet Alex-BCC champ 2005 by open lengths had he not been injured

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

I am going to make a bold statement and say that Bernardini may just be the best dirt horse in the world, and if he continues to run races in the form he showed in the Preakness, no one is going to beat him...not even America's top older horses. The only American horse that stood a chance against him was our lovely Barbaro. Now, the only horse that may stand against him if he keeps running in his current form is Darley's other horse Discreet Cat. SNS and Brother Derek can't beat Bernardini. I feel that he really have a weak older horse division here this year. Flower Alley is going to have to show me something to give me some hope.

The Darley stable still hasn't unleashed one of my personal favorites, Henny Hughes.

I don't know if Bernardini is even better than their older horse Invasor. Bernardini could be a star but remember he beat a bunch of tired horses in his only big race. One race doesn't make for the best dirt horse in the world. Right now it would be hard to believe such an inexperience horse could beat the Top 4yr olds. I think Ministers Bid will have something a say in the Travers and so will a fresh Sweetnorthernsaint if he goes that route. I also want to see Showing Up with a few more races under his belt and a healthy Corinthian before I go even giving Bernardini best 3yr old dirt horse, let alone top dirt horse in the world.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by boldruler

I don't know if Bernardini is even better than their older horse Invasor. Bernardini could be a star but remember he beat a bunch of tired horses in his only big race. One race doesn't make for the best dirt horse in the world. Right now it would be hard to believe such an inexperience horse could beat the Top 4yr olds. I think Ministers Bid will have something a say in the Travers and so will a fresh Sweetnorthernsaint if he goes that route. I also want to see Showing Up with a few more races under his belt and a healthy Corinthian before I go even giving Bernardini best 3yr old dirt horse, let alone top dirt horse in the world.

Yes, but in winning that one big race it looked as if he was shot out of a cannon coming around the far turn. That was such an impressive race...figure wise, time wise, and visually. He didn't just win one big race...his Withers was super impressive too. I know what Bernardini is, and am willing to acknowledge it early on so that I am not disappointed when the Sheiks dominate the three year old division this year. Bernardini is a very, very special animal. Corinthian was a very nice horse, but coming back off of layoffs due to an injury always worry me, and I really don't think Corinthian is going to be able to get the classic distances. We shall see...

Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay

Yes, but in winning that one big race it looked as if he was shot out of a cannon coming around the far turn. That was such an impressive race...figure wise, time wise, and visually. He didn't just win one big race...his Withers was super impressive too. I know what Bernardini is, and am willing to acknowledge it early on so that I am not disappointed when the Sheiks dominate the three year old division this year. Bernardini is a very, very special animal. Corinthian was a very nice horse, but coming back off of layoffs due to an injury always worry me, and I really don't think Corinthian is going to be able to get the classic distances. We shall see...

I wasn't really impressed with his Withers. It was a small field and the horse that finished second didn't do much this week. His Preakness time was really quick but I don't trust figures at such a weird distance. I am going to go out on a limb and say that Ministers Bid will be the top 3yr old when it is all said and done.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Originally Posted by boldruler

I wasn't really impressed with his Withers. It was a small field and the horse that finished second didn't do much this week. His Preakness time was really quick but I don't trust figures at such a weird distance. I am going to go out on a limb and say that Ministers Bid will be the top 3yr old when it is all said and done.

I did considering the jock lost the whip in the Withers...Ministers Bid is a really nice horse too, but I'm still going to stick with my statement about Bernardini. I'm going to trust the figures and the time in the Preakness. It was really that good. You just have to love this year's three year old division. There is just so much talent. It is so nice after what we had last year.

[brockguy]

and remember they have electrocutionist who could come off their bench to run on the dirt if needs be. he looked useful enough in dubai. races on turf next against david junior over 10f next week!

Originally Posted by boldruler

I don't know if Bernardini is even better than their older horse Invasor. Bernardini could be a star but remember he beat a bunch of tired horses in his only big race. One race doesn't make for the best dirt horse in the world. Right now it would be hard to believe such an inexperience horse could beat the Top 4yr olds. I think Ministers Bid will have something a say in the Travers and so will a fresh Sweetnorthernsaint if he goes that route. I also want to see Showing Up with a few more races under his belt and a healthy Corinthian before I go even giving Bernardini best 3yr old dirt horse, let alone top dirt horse in the world.

Not only is Bernardini better than Invasor, he is heads and shoulders better than that horse IMO....not close...I am also a fan of Minister's Bid, but he can't beat Bernardini....SNS, Showing Up and Corinthian are nice but not on Beranrdini's level..

Originally Posted by boldruler

I wasn't really impressed with his Withers. It was a small field and the horse that finished second didn't do much this week. His Preakness time was really quick but I don't trust figures at such a weird distance. I am going to go out on a limb and say that Ministers Bid will be the top 3yr old when it is all said and done.

I don't care what he beat in the Withers...the way he did it gave me chills...he was never asked for close to his best and he crushed that group in 1:35 and change for a one-turn mile, which was the fastest mile of the meet at that time....Plus, I knew he would only get better when he stretched out around two-turns...he is bred to run all day...he is special and I believe he is a horse that could change the breed. What I mean by that is he has everything it takes to be a top shelf stallion as well....

..I compare him to Mineshaft - a horse I am VERY familiar with from working at Fair Grounds when he campaigned there his HOY season......I think Bernardini is a better looking horse than Mineshaft and will prove to be a better horse than Mineshaft...just my opinion..