Lawyer Ron returns in St. Louis Derby

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

I told you all that Lawyer Ron wasn't overrated. Is he in Bernardini's league right now?...no way...I don't think any horse is. But, he is a very nice graded stakes horse that has a very, very promising future. His comeback race was spectacular. He'll only improve off of that start. I am really looking forward to BD's and Sharp Humors returns too. Has anyone heard anything about SNS?

Originally Posted by irishtrekker

Anyone know who else is headed to the Super Derby? (If Lawyer Ron goes, of course...). It would be good to see a few of the old gang clash again -- LR, Bro Derek, SNS. There are still quite a few good 3yo's out there if they can stay healthy.

Ward claims they are pointing Strong Contender there and i think Pletcher is consderuing High Cotton, too.....it will be a strong race this year.....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

List 5 improtant horses that Chief's Crown sired...I doubt you could even list that many....I'm telling you that danzig blood on the paternal side really isn't that great relative to how good of racehorses they were and the mares they got, etc.....I love Danzig as much as the next person, but he just has been very average as a sire of sires.....I like him on the broodmare side, though

I was there in person for two of Danzig's three races ... the second time specifically to see him run.

Despite his own unsoundness ... he sired some very good race horses ... but you're right ... his line seems to not be breeding on ... although such things can be reversed quite suddenly. Antonius Pius and Survivalist may become the greatest stallions in the world.

The final chapter won't be written for another twenty years.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

List 5 improtant horses that Chief's Crown sired...

Erhaab, winner of the Derby S (GB-G1), etc.
Chief Bearheart, winner of the BC Turf (G1), Canadian International Championship, etc.. Eclipse for Turf horse
Grand Lodge, champion 2yo in GB, Dewhurst S (G1-GB), St. James Palace S(G1-GB), etc.; sire of Derby and Arc winner Sinndar, etc.
Be My Chief, winner of Racing Post Tropy S (G1-GB), etc. sire of Donna Viola (Gamely H-G1, etc.), Hail the Chief (Hawthorne Gold Cup, etc.)
Azzam, winner of the Sidney Cup (G1-Aus), etc.
Istidaad, winner of the Australian Cup (G1-Aus)
Chief Honcho, winner of the Brooklyn H (G1), etc.
Concerto, winner of the Jim Beam S (G2) and Kentucky Jockey Club S (G2), sire of Bellamy Road (Wood Memorial-G1).

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

So horrible that he is now a Chef-de-race. Check the Roman site.

I hardly think that's a good argument. Buckaroo, I think is a chef-de-race, but AP Indy isn't. Nor is Unbridled, as a matter of fact. Dr. Romans seems to have been in hiding for the last several years.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

I was there in person for two of Danzig's three races ... the second time specifically to see him run.

Despite his own unsoundness ... he sired some very good race horses ... but you're right ... his line seems to not be breeding on ... although such things can be reversed quite suddenly. Antonius Pius and Survivalist may become the greatest stallions in the world.

The final chapter won't be written for another twenty years.

Are you guys serious? Danzig's male line is the Absolute top of the heap in Australasia right now. Danehill's sons are running the board over there. And some Danehills are doing fine in Europe, like Danehill Dancer (who had a G1 winner this morning in Ireland) and Tiger Hill in Germany, not to mention Desert King who sired Makybe Diva (3 Melbourne Cups). Sinndar has had group winners with his oldest only 4, Polish Precedent has sired Pilsudski (BC Turf among other G1 wins) and Rakti (Champion S, etc) and Polish Summer (Sheema Classic). . Lure was subfertile but he left G1 winner Orpen, who is sired a classic winner in his first crop. Bellamy Road will represent him over here, although his dad Concerto is still with us as well. This is not a struggling male line.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I hardly think that's a good argument. Buckaroo, I think is a chef-de-race, but AP Indy isn't. Nor is Unbridled, as a matter of fact. Dr. Romans seems to have been in hiding for the last several years.

Actually, I agree with you - Roman stole Varola's work and coasted on it for a few years but seems to have lost interest. But I wouldn't call Buckaroo or Apalachee horrible stallions, either.

Varola was smart enough not to name any living stallions as chefs-de-race in his listings. Or at least none that hadn't had a full career already. Naming horses chefs mid-career has hazards.

[Danzig]

danehill is the sire of rock of gibraltar, as well as cacique, banks hill, dansili, elvstroem, intercontinental, landseer, oratorio....countless others who have earned 6 figures, many millionaires.
as a shuttle stallion danehill has influenced racing from europe to hong kong, from australia to here in the u.s.
langfuhr sired wando and mobil....the influence of northern dancer thru sadlers wells and danehill thru danzig is worldwide, and will remain so thru the sons and daughters of those stallions.

danzig is the top stakes sire in north america by far. sadlers wells, also by northern dancer, is the top in europe. danehill, by danzig completed the triumvirate in australasia.

i'm not sure how much more danzig can do then what he's done....

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

By Joel Cunningham
Wire to Wire Editor

If you would have asked trainer Bob Holthus earlier this spring where he envisioned campaigning one-time Derby favorite Lawyer Ron in the late summer, he would have probably mentioned a premier 3-year-old event such as the prestigious Travers (G1) to be run Saturday at the famed Saratoga Race Course as a likely possibility.

One of those possibilities, however, would not have likely been the St. Louis Derby at Fairmount Park.

But much has happened since Lawyer Ron captured his sixth consecutive win with a sparkling victory in the Arkansas Derby (G2). The son of Langfuhr entered the Kentucky Derby (G1) as one of the race favorites in what was considered a wide-open affair, but he incurred quite a bit of misfortune in that race – one that is so dependent on having luck on your side. Lawyer Ron had a rough trip in the full field of 20, subsequently breaking his win streak by checking in a disappointing twelfth, beaten more than 21 lengths.

That wasn’t the worst thing that happened. Lawyer Ron, who had just been purchased by majority owner Stonewall Farms days prior to the Derby, was found to have returned from the race with a chip in his right hind ankle, requiring surgery and sidelining him for most of the summer.

Installed as the 2-1 favorite on the morning line for Saturday’s $250,000 event for 3-year-olds, Lawyer Ron makes his return since that dreadful experience in the Run for the Roses at Churchill Downs in May, and he’ll meet a full field of 12 sophomores when he lines up in the gate for the mile and-a-sixteenth event. If workouts are an indication, the speedy chestnut seems primed for a big effort, which would be bad news for his rivals.

Lawyer Ron, who will be piloted by regular rider John McKee from post No. 4, figures to get his sternest competition from stakes winners Lewis Michael, More Than Regal and Casino Evil, as well as up-and-comer Cielo Gold, and a good run Saturday will set him up for a probable start in next month’s $500,000 Super Derby (G2) at Louisiana Downs – where earlier this year he romped in the Risen Star (G3) at the Fair Grounds at Louisiana Downs meeting, which was potentially his finest performance to date.

This is a good job. We have some good writers on this site and I am clearly not one of them.

[Scurlogue Champ]

This is the most awesome thread.

Danzig isn't a great sire????? that is the funniest thing I have ever heard

[Danzig]

from bloodhorse:

Danzig, who was unbeaten on the racetrack for owner Henryk de Kwiatkowski and trainer Woody Stephens, got off to quick start as a stallion with three grade I winners--Chief's Crown, Contredance, and Stephan's Odyssey--from his first crop. As a 2-year-old in 1984, Chief's Crown won the inaugural Breeders' Cup Juvenile (gr. I) and was voted champion 2-year-old male. Chief's Crown went on to become a major winner at three and a successful stallion. Danzig not only led the freshman sires list by progeny earnings, but also that year's sires of 2-year-olds list.
Danzig became the first stallion since Claiborne's Bold Ruler in the 1960s to head the sires list three consecutive years. In fact, in the last 100 years, only Broomstick and Bull Lea led for as many as three straight seasons. Danzig is represented by 188 stakes winners(up to 192 as of last week)--tops among North American stallions--and ranks among the leaders by number of Breeders' Cup winners. In addition to Chief's Crown, his son Lure won the 1992-93 Mile (gr. IT). Another son, War Chant, took the 2000 Mile and a daughter, Dance Smartly, captured the 1991 Distaff (gr. I) the year she was Canada's Triple Crown winner and Horse of the Year.

Danzig's other top runners include major sire Danehill, English Horse of the Year Dayjur, and United States classic winners Danzig Connection (Belmont Stakes, gr. I) and Pine Bluff (Preakness Stakes, gr. I). Danehill is the all-time leader by number of stakes winners, with 309. Danzig also is the sire of successful stallions Belong to Me and Langfuhr. Another son, Polish Navy, sired 1993 Kentucky Derby (gr. I) winner Sea Hero.

For his career, Danzig sired 1,074 foals and is represented by the earners of $101 million. He has sired 107 graded stakes winners and 10 champions.

Danzig was bred in Pennsylvania by Marshall Jenney's Derry Meeting Farm and William S. Farish, and sold to de Kwiatkowski for $310,000 at the 1978 Saratoga yearling sale. He raced three times before being retired to Claiborne because of knee problems.

Danzig's last foals are yearlings, and there are 18 of them. His 2-year-old crop numbers 30. Danzig will be buried at Claiborne.

[Pedigree Ann]

If Lawyer Ron turns out to be the Lost Code or Smarten of this crop, I don't think his buyers will be disappointed. Those horses didn't have A-list pedigrees and they weren't at the top of their generations, but they kept on winning second level races before turning into good reliable sires of racehorses (not sales yearlings).

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Antonius Pius and Survivalist may become the greatest stallions in the world.

The final chapter won't be written for another twenty years.

Yeah, maybe, but unlikely...Antonius Pius is a freakin lunatic and Survalist is a Grade 3 type but he could pan out in a smaller market like New York in the breeding shed.....Danehill is carving out a phenomial legacy but that is about it if you ask me...Langfuhr and Belong to Me are solid for $15K - $20K stud fee but thats it....War Chnt is a bust if you ask me...he got way too many good mares to not have any super racehorses IMO....

Hey, I think Danzig'z grandson Rock of Gibraltar has a solid chance to do something though....we'll see...

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Erhaab, winner of the Derby S (GB-G1), etc.
Chief Bearheart, winner of the BC Turf (G1), Canadian International Championship, etc.. Eclipse for Turf horse
Grand Lodge, champion 2yo in GB, Dewhurst S (G1-GB), St. James Palace S(G1-GB), etc.; sire of Derby and Arc winner Sinndar, etc.
Be My Chief, winner of Racing Post Tropy S (G1-GB), etc. sire of Donna Viola (Gamely H-G1, etc.), Hail the Chief (Hawthorne Gold Cup, etc.)
Azzam, winner of the Sidney Cup (G1-Aus), etc.
Istidaad, winner of the Australian Cup (G1-Aus)
Chief Honcho, winner of the Brooklyn H (G1), etc.
Concerto, winner of the Jim Beam S (G2) and Kentucky Jockey Club S (G2), sire of Bellamy Road (Wood Memorial-G1).

Comon Pedigree Anne...you know I was talking about sires - not race horses...he too got all the best mares in his hayday and still was a failure at stud to speak relatively....you know that....

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Are you guys serious? Danzig's male line is the Absolute top of the heap in Australasia right now. Danehill's sons are running the board over there. And some Danehills are doing fine in Europe, like Danehill Dancer (who had a G1 winner this morning in Ireland) and Tiger Hill in Germany, not to mention Desert King who sired Makybe Diva (3 Melbourne Cups). Sinndar has had group winners with his oldest only 4, Polish Precedent has sired Pilsudski (BC Turf among other G1 wins) and Rakti (Champion S, etc) and Polish Summer (Sheema Classic). . Lure was subfertile but he left G1 winner Orpen, who is sired a classic winner in his first crop. Bellamy Road will represent him over here, although his dad Concerto is still with us as well. This is not a struggling male line.

Yes, we know....Danehill is the lone bright spot.....and that is Australia dude, which is like breeding New Jersey breds....

Originally Posted by moodwalker

This is the most awesome thread.

Danzig isn't a great sire????? that is the funniest thing I have ever heard

You need tio learn how to read before you comment and then look like an idiot....I said that Danzig IS NOT A SIRE OF SIRES!!!...and I even acknowledge that he was a GREAT racehorse stallion and GREAT broodmare influence - just not a great SIRE OF SIRES......You clearly didn't read this thread correctly...

Now, if you think that Danzig is a great sire of sires, then you may want to try a different sport that you actually know something about....

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

then you may want to try a different sport that you actually know something about, sir.......

I thought you weren't up for the personal attacks, Joel?

Your assertion that I know nothing about this sport is ludicrous.

Some things I don't know much about are ass-kissing, self-importance, and Louisiana breds.

You think you could help me brush up on those? Maybe contact some of your industry experts that I obviously don't have the pleasure of knowing and get your lesson plan together and let me know when to show up.

If I had a dime for every "industry expert" I have met, I could buy 50 Louisiana breds.

AGAIN, I KNOW DANEHILL IS GREAT....I said that early on in this thread. But,l as successful of a racehorse sire as Danzig was and with the book of mares he got the 15-20 years he was in the breeding shed as a prolific stallion - should one top stallion merit him as a GREAT SIRE OF SIRES - I think not...he has been a disappointment to people who understand the breeding industry...just saying....

This debate has clearly wandered away from waht my original statement was about talking about his impact as a SIRE OF SIRES...

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I thought you weren't up for the personal attacks, Joel?

Your assertion that I know nothing about this sport is ludicrous.

Some things I don't know much about are ass-kissing, self-importance, and Louisiana breds.

You think you could help me brush up on those? Maybe contact some of your industry experts that I obviously don't have the pleasure of knowing and get your lesson plan together and let me know when to show up.

If I had a dime for every "industry expert" I have met, I could buy 50 Louisiana breds.

That was advice and not a personal attack, mood.....

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I thought you weren't up for the personal attacks, Joel?

Your assertion that I know nothing about this sport is ludicrous.

Some things I don't know much about are ass-kissing, self-importance, and Louisiana breds.

You think you could help me brush up on those? Maybe contact some of your industry experts that I obviously don't have the pleasure of knowing and get your lesson plan together and let me know when to show up.

If I had a dime for every "industry expert" I have met, I could buy 50 Louisiana breds.

I love some of the posters in this forum....HI-LARIOUS