NBC receives mail from shooter

[GenuineRisk]

I still don't buy the "evil" theory, because I think it makes it easy for us to stop looking for answers to the human condition-"Oh, he was an evil, sick f*ck. Done. When's American Idol coming on?"

Though I myself use the term when looking at sociopaths like Bundy, but the difference there is someone who clearly got his rocks off from causing pain and killing and who had no intention of stopping, ever. He would no more have killed himself after a killing than monkeys would have flown out of his butt. Not to mention he was apparently charming as all get out. Like Albert Brooks says in Broadcast News, the devil isn't going to appear with a forked tail and horns- he's going to be goodlooking.

Anyway, I'm no medical professional, lord knows, but I really find it hard to believe this kid had anything resembling a grip on reality. And I find it hard to label that level of mental illness evil.

Slate's take on it:
http://www.slate.com/id/2164757/

[timmgirvan]

The fact is that if Congress can do all it can to strengthen the background check etc etc, but guns can still be obtained illegally. We've discussed the state of Mental Health Care ad infinitum...and there needs to be much done there(as I'm sure Somer would agree). I personally think hollows should be restricted at the least. One concern I have about CCW permits is that you're mostly likely in danger when in public(as opposed to the home) but I can't see everybody carrying...this isn't the Old West!

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

For sell? This sick pup bought 100 rounds.You in Virginia?Go get yours too.....Damn Hillbillies.

Scuds you make good arguements and then you go with this regional BS that ruins everything. You had a man in mild mannered San Diego rip apart 21 people in a McDonald's. You think California is immune to crazy people going off and killing people. He had a frkn Uzi in your great state.

We have a black guy go nuts in Maryland and surrounding areas and pick off people. Get real.

Its sad but we are gun obssessed. Japan had 53 total deaths last year by guns. And almost all of those attributed to a right wing mafia. It does not happen on the streets. Not ONE accidental shooting.

We probably have 53 deaths by guns a year in the city I live in and Japan has 53 all year... Definite cultural difference.

[timmgirvan]

Yeah,Pgardn,but don't they have a thing about swords?? What about those stats,huh?

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I still don't buy the "evil" theory, because I think it makes it easy for us to stop looking for answers to the human condition-"Oh, he was an evil, sick f*ck. Done. When's American Idol coming on?"

Though I myself use the term when looking at sociopaths like Bundy, but the difference there is someone who clearly got his rocks off from causing pain and killing and who had no intention of stopping, ever. He would no more have killed himself after a killing than monkeys would have flown out of his butt. Not to mention he was apparently charming as all get out. Like Albert Brooks says in Broadcast News, the devil isn't going to appear with a forked tail and horns- he's going to be goodlooking.

Anyway, I'm no medical professional, lord knows, but I really find it hard to believe this kid had anything resembling a grip on reality. And I find it hard to label that level of mental illness evil.

Slate's take on it:
http://www.slate.com/id/2164757/

Obviously,there must be an evolution of sorts,and the lack of medication contributed to this quagmire.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Yeah,Pgardn,but don't they have a thing about swords?? What about those stats,huh?

Their violent murder deaths are not even close to the state I live in. Guess you were kidding. There are clearly cultural differences and we are clearly a violent society. Have to start right there if anything is to be solved.

Now Japan does have a very large number of suicides comparable to ours.

And in South Korea this incident was all over the newspapers. The citizens were in shock and ashamed. The basic jist I got from the South Korean side was, "Holy Cow, say it aint so, we cant be like them". This was a National humiliation to them. Its like the whole country took it as their fault, its quite amazing. Again, cultural differences. It appears that some Asian socities take responsibility very seriously.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Their violent murder deaths are not even close to the state I live in. Guess you were kidding. There are clearly cultural differences and we are clearly a violent society. Have to start right there if anything is to be solved.

Now Japan does have a very large number of suicides comparable to ours.

And in South Korea this incident was all over the newspapers. The citizens were in shock and ashamed. The basic jist I got from the South Korean side was, "Holy Cow, say it aint so, we cant be like them". This was a National humiliation to them. Its like the whole country took it as their fault, its quite amazing. Again, cultural differences. It appears that some Asian socities take responsibility very seriously.

You could fit 3 Japans into Texas and still have room for the Northeastern Seaboard! Yes, I was kidding....and I knew about suicide rate,but I didn't want to be accused of "piling on"

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by pgardn

And in South Korea this incident was all over the newspapers. The citizens were in shock and ashamed. The basic jist I got from the South Korean side was, "Holy Cow, say it aint so, we cant be like them". This was a National humiliation to them. Its like the whole country took it as their fault, its quite amazing. Again, cultural differences. It appears that some Asian socities take responsibility very seriously.

I understand he was not technically a citizen, but the kid had lived here since he was what, 8 years old? If I was a South Korean, I'd be feeling that hey, the US had him for 16 years and SK had him for 8- he's all the US's. South Korea has nothing to worry about in that respect...

[Danzig]

i think arguing about using hollow points vs other bullets really doesn't matter. you get hit in the right spot, type of bullet doesn't mean squat. also, as small a calibre as a .22 is, people seem surprised at the damage it can do--reagan damn near died after getting hit by a .22 bullet, those go in and ping pong all over your body, ripping everything inside....

look, fact remains, if someone wants to do some damage, they're going to. this stuff will continue to happen. we can only make it as difficult as possible for those who have lost their right (due to criminality, insanity) to buy a gun to somehow get one. those caught selling guns illegally should be prosecuted to the nth degree! anyone who has some mental defect should be reported-they should be flagged if they try to buy, just like anyone who gets a restraining order on them, or those who are charged or convicted for domestic violence, stalking, etc. after all, stalking is not a 'normal' behavior.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

The fact is that if Congress can do all it can to strengthen the background check etc etc, but guns can still be obtained illegally. We've discussed the state of Mental Health Care ad infinitum...and there needs to be much done there(as I'm sure Somer would agree). I personally think hollows should be restricted at the least. One concern I have about CCW permits is that you're mostly likely in danger when in public(as opposed to the home) but I can't see everybody carrying...this isn't the Old West!

but by the same token, criminals aren't going to rush to rob someone, if they're not so sure you'd be an easy target. it's tricky, cops can't be everywhere, and people should have the right to defend themselves. no easy answers for sure.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

but by the same token, criminals aren't going to rush to rob someone, if they're not so sure you'd be an easy target. it's tricky, cops can't be everywhere, and people should have the right to defend themselves. no easy answers for sure.

I agree...it just that it is very hard to get a CCW in Cali! On the other hand..I'd rather be fined than dead!

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I understand he was not technically a citizen, but the kid had lived here since he was what, 8 years old? If I was a South Korean, I'd be feeling that hey, the US had him for 16 years and SK had him for 8- he's all the US's. South Korea has nothing to worry about in that respect...

Makes it all the more amazing because that excuse was not given. It was clearly we (S.Koreans) dont do this sort of thing. The country is completely stunned.
Now I will say that when a US jeep ran over a couple of Korean girls on accident they wanted us completely out of the country and the uproar was just as bad if not worse. They considered this a National crisis. When some black military men raped a Japanese girl, it was pretty clear by the stuff that came out that Japan is far more prejudiced towards blacks than Americans. The Japanese made it very clear that the rape was far worse than if a man of Japanese origin had done this. And the fact the rapists were from the US AND black... they were quite upset.

[Danzig]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18248374/

[Danzig]

"Roughly one-fifth said they know someone who has been a victim of a crime involving firearms in recent years, with women, young people, minorities, city residents and low-income people among the likeliest. Of those, almost a quarter said they have considered acquiring a gun for themselves.

About one in three people said they already have a firearm, consistent with previous polling results. Men, whites and Southerners are the likeliest to own guns."


that's from another article i just read.....so, men, whites, and southerners (rural??) are most likely to OWN a gun, and also the least likely to have a crime committed against them....criminals know who the least likely to be protected are...after all, many cities ban gun ownership, so the criminals (who already break laws, so what will a gun law do?) know the chances of an urban dweller being able to defend himself is slim. thus, an easier target. police can't be everywhere.
glad i don't live in a city, and i never will. the right to defend oneself is a basic right, and it's been taken away, giving the edge to those who don't care about breaking one law while committing another.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Danzig

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18248374/

I hope for their sakes that Lucinda Roy and the mental Health guy don't relive this nightmare forever. That would be a shame. Hindsight is always 20/20. A clear examination of all facets needs to be undertaken...for the present and the future

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Scuds you make good arguements and then you go with this regional BS that ruins everything. You had a man in mild mannered San Diego rip apart 21 people in a McDonald's. You think California is immune to crazy people going off and killing people. He had a frkn Uzi in your great state.

We have a black guy go nuts in Maryland and surrounding areas and pick off people. Get real.

You just don't like the fact that some states have a lot more people in them with backward thinking about hollow points etc.DANZIG IS NO HILLBILLY,BUT SHE LIVES IN A HILLBILLY STATE,AND HER VIEWS ON HOLLOW POINTS ARE TOTALLY HILLBILLY. I mean,read that crap (below your post about me,)o.k.? She doesn't think the type of bullet is all that important.I am telling you that quite a few of these folks(probably 7-15 out of the over 30 that died ) would have survived this.She evidently doesn't care about it,or is ignoring it.If even one more survived,then it would have been worth restricting the hollow points.She is usually logical,but when guns enter into it....She just goes off, and loses it ,man.She just becomes another HILLBILLY type.Yea,we got nuts out here.All I am saying is some states have more than their share of people that favor stuff like this being allowed to be sold(hollow points.)I am talking about the attitudes of the majority of the people in these states.I am not talking about nuts that kill people.I am talking about these backward Hillbilly attitudes (like for instance,Hollow Points should be available for joe citizen to buy.) I am sorry,PGRDN,but there is a divide in thinking,and it is regional.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You just don't like the fact that some states have a lot more people in them with backward thinking about hollow points etc.DANZIG IS NO HILLBILLY,BUT SHE LIVES IN A HILLBILLY STATE,AND HER VIEWS ON HOLLOW POINTS ARE TOTALLY HILLBILLY. I mean,read that crap (below your post about me,)o.k.? She doesn't think the type of bullet is all that important.I am telling you that quite a few of these folks(probably 7-15 out of the over 30 that died ) would have survived this.She evidently doesn't care about it,or is ignoring it.If even one more survived,then it would have been worth restricting the hollow points.She is usually logical,but when guns enter into it....She just goes off, and loses it ,man.She just becomes another HILLBILLY type.Yea,we got nuts out here.All I am saying is some states have more than their share of people that favor stuff like this being allowed to be sold(hollow points.)I am talking about the attitudes of the majority of the people in these states.I am not talking about nuts that kill people.I am talking about these backward Hillbilly attitudes (like for instance,Hollow Points should be available for joe citizen to buy.) I am sorry,PGRDN,but there is a divide in thinking,and it is regional.

Ok Im gonna shock you here Scuds. I agree. But I also think is a rural v. urban thing.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

"Roughly one-fifth said they know someone who has been a victim of a crime involving firearms in recent years, with women, young people, minorities, city residents and low-income people among the likeliest. Of those, almost a quarter said they have considered acquiring a gun for themselves.

About one in three people said they already have a firearm, consistent with previous polling results. Men, whites and Southerners are the likeliest to own guns."


that's from another article i just read.....so, men, whites, and southerners (rural??) are most likely to OWN a gun, and also the least likely to have a crime committed against them....criminals know who the least likely to be protected are...after all, many cities ban gun ownership, so the criminals (who already break laws, so what will a gun law do?) know the chances of an urban dweller being able to defend himself is slim. thus, an easier target. police can't be everywhere.
glad i don't live in a city, and i never will. the right to defend oneself is a basic right, and it's been taken away, giving the edge to those who don't care about breaking one law while committing another.

So, 80 percent of people surveyed did not know anyone who had been the victim of a crime involving guns, and 75 percent of those who did know (of that 20 percent) still did not want a gun. So only 5 percent of the people surveyed considered getting one. Correct?

Did the article say how many of the guns involved in those crimes cited by the 20 percent had been acquired legally?

Devil's advocate, Danzig- I'm amazed that the majority of people who knew of a crime involving guns still didn't want one. Because they've seen what they can do, do you think?

How about we attack poverty and urban blight-- I have a strong suspicion that would do more to fight crime than anything else. Oh right, because conservatives feel if you're poor, you must deserve it and could get out of it if you really, really wanted to.

[Mortimer]

I'm thinking that maybe one can buy stuff like this.