BEYER: Defining Zenyatta's historical role

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by HomerS

Sorry but thats kind of silly. If we applied that standard (handicapping a race wrong) to all of us this and other forums would be pretty quite. I cant imagine there are many people out there, who could pass such a standard- ie; judgement

ya but some people only handicap AFTER the race has been run. So its okay for them to judge a bad opinion.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

I have not taken Andy Beyer's judgment about relative merits of horses seriously since 1989, when he declared on national TV that there was no way in Hades that Bayakoa could run on a pressured lead and hold off quality horses like Gorgeous in the BC Distaff. So I consider the source of this article and dismiss it as irrelevant. No skin off of my nose, nor Zenyatta's.

Oh no! I've been respecting this guy's opinion for a long time.....but I never knew about this disaster! He got a race wrong twenty years ago!?!?! What a clown!
I certainly won't pay him any mind now that this has come to light because I only take seriously those people who are:
1) paid to give opinions about a lot of races
2) get every single race they've ever analyzed completely correct.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

It's the kind of stuff you can expect from people who don't understand handicapping and betting.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

I have not taken Andy Beyer's judgment about relative merits of horses seriously since 1989, when he declared on national TV that there was no way in Hades that Bayakoa could run on a pressured lead and hold off quality horses like Gorgeous in the BC Distaff. So I consider the source of this article and dismiss it as irrelevant. No skin off of my nose, nor Zenyatta's.

I will keep this from Beyer lest he be crushed.

The funny thing is that the following year Gorgeous demonstrated who actually was the better horse between the two before she got hurt.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

I have not taken Andy Beyer's judgment about relative merits of horses seriously since 1989, when he declared on national TV that there was no way in Hades that Bayakoa could run on a pressured lead and hold off quality horses like Gorgeous in the BC Distaff. So I consider the source of this article and dismiss it as irrelevant. No skin off of my nose, nor Zenyatta's.

Wow let me know the next race you handicap since you must have a perfect record to say this.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Oh no! I've been respecting this guy's opinion for a long time.....but I never knew about this disaster! He got a race wrong twenty years ago!?!?! What a clown!
I certainly won't pay him any mind now that this has come to light because I only take seriously those people who are:
1) paid to give opinions about a lot of races
2) get every single race they've ever analyzed completely correct.

Still wondering how I picked Super Saver to win the Preakness. Yuck.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by knickslions2

Wow let me know the next race you handicap since you must have a perfect record to say this.

Don't hold your breath.

[slotdirt]

8,893,829 rupies that Pedigree Ann picked Empire Maker in 2003.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by GPK

Don't hold your breath.

She's very good a day or two afterwards however.

Or a decade or two.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

She's very good a day or two afterwards however.

Or a decade or two.

She's the best I've ever seen.

[Indian Charlie]

Gorgeous is one of the forgotten truly great horses of the last 25 years or so.

When she was on her game, there aren't many fillies/mares that would have beaten her.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Gorgeous is one of the forgotten truly great horses of the last 25 years or so.

When she was on her game, there aren't many fillies/mares that would have beaten her.

I was a big fan of hers as well.

[Duvalier]

Originally Posted by Cardus

I've posted this elsewhere -- and Duvalier can confirm this -- but I think that the column was well-written and well-reasoned.

Huh?

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Gorgeous is one of the forgotten truly great horses of the last 25 years or so.

When she was on her game, there aren't many fillies/mares that would have beaten her.

During Book 1 of the Keeneland sale I kept seeing her name pop up. Her genes were well represented.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

The new leader in the clubhouse .....

Michael Manoj Tolaney (whoever he is)

Look, Andy Beyer is sour grapes because he knows my good friend, Ashok Sinha called his bluff and disproved his precious Beyer rating system way back in 2002. The individuals who pro-rate the roughly 8 point discrepancy are printing money, ...esp. in the P-6 sequence where overlays are routine at Eastern tracks. Case in point: Sarava's 99 Beyer prior to the Belmont was in actuality a 107, that's correct, must adjust figures of horses going from G3 to G1 because serious flaw in Beyer's methodology is he penalizes class and over-rewards sprinters/raw final times. Finally, he never accounts for runaway winners at lower levels, eg - Grade 3, where Sarava was a 12-length runaway winner in his prep for the 2002 Belmont. I am glad Beyer does not have a clue............. we cashed a $142 horse in the 2002 Belmont, and the exacta w 16-1 MDO as an added bonus or ancillary benefit. How does my downgrading Andy Beyer to junk bond status........... relate to Zenyatta, well it doesn't.................... but the bottom line is the guy is routinely wrong more than he is right. Where is his MBA, PhD or degree in advanced Math?? What qualifies or his rating system as gospel? Hmmm, exactly. I freely admit I am a Zenyatta Fan, even though I needed Gio Ponti for a P5 in last year's Breeders Cup Classic, i had to play Gio Ponti because as usual, Beyer lowballed his figures. Zenyatta has never lost, can Andy Beyer say the same? I think NOT. -MT

[Danzig]

i wonder if this guy keeps track of his losses?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

& the best PR machine since the 70's??? LOL thats why so many non racing fans are following Z's career

No horse in the past decade holds a candle to Smarty Jones as far as PR goes.

Agreed

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by tiggerv

Why publish a generic "Zenyatta is overrated" article the day after Rachel retires? How about writing about the historical place of the retired horse instead of the horse with 2 races left? I know that Beyer is in LA and Z runs this weekend, but save the Zenyatta historical role article until after she finishes racing.

amen. no, hes not biased either after his numbers said zenyatta was slow last year....oh wait a minute, then she won the BC classic. must be the surface...oh, the horse won two graded stakes on the dirt too.....that doesn't count. it almost makes me want her to win at churchill. just to read what kind of garbage makes her not "historical" after that....what a joke of an article....did it even have a point? i noticed the trend that these articles usually come up after his numbers get tanked or he has to justify them. if she was not one of the best horses of the last decade.....who is andy? i thought you followed this game...lol....lol,

[Indian Charlie]

Expecting rational discourse from Zenyattards is much like expecting an intelligent, non emotional conversation between a rational human being and a religious zealot who reacts to every undeniable fact with great outbursts of illogic and defensiveness.

[Thunder Gulch]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The new leader in the clubhouse .....

Michael Manoj Tolaney (whoever he is)

That is rich.