That didnt take long....

[Crown@club]

http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/00974

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Crown@club

http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/00974

“There will be a dire shortage of physicians if the PPACA becomes effective and is not overturned by the courts.”

One of the many sad things about this bill are that the bright young minds in this country will stay away from medicine and study something that will actually allow them to make good money. The quality of our care and our doctors is going to be right where the Dem leadership wants it to be.. the same "quality" of medical care that we are supposed to look up to from Canada & Europe. Crappy Care that Riot and Obama pretend is so great.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

[/b]

Can you argue that the Student Loan program wasn't in need of a complete takeover from it's current state?

http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/cr...lted/19417573/

Sure you can. The problem with the programs that Obama proposes is that you only get the "good" news about them. This is simply morphing the student loan program from a govt backed program to a full fledged entitlemnt program. And regardless of what you may believe, entitlement programs always wind up costing WAY more than they are sold as.

The bill was touted as saving $61 billion over 10 years yet that doesnt take into consideration the new $77 billion in spending that it calls for. Net loss.

Then there is this...
"CBO explained that "savings" estimates are artificially high because of government accounting rules that undercount the risks of default when the government is originating the loans, while the new spending estimates are artificially low. Many colleges oppose the government plan specifically because the feds don't make the same effort to prevent defaults that the private lenders do."

and this...
"Both the House-passed bill and the President's budget increase Pell Grants and also create automatic future increases, so individual grants will grow faster than inflation every year. Colleges will pocket the money by raising tuition, so we have yet another federal program ensuring that higher education costs continue to rise even faster than health-care spending.

Mr. Obama's budget also calls for making Pell Grants a mandatory entitlement. At least now they are subject to annual appropriation and their growth can be slowed when tax revenues fall or other priorities rate higher."


And of course there is this...
"Various changes that the President proposes to the Pell Grant program would add another $0.2 trillion to the deficit between 2011 and 2020," CBO said Friday. That could turn out to be a very optimistic estimate if unemployment remains high and more people seize the educational opportunity to which they have just become entitled. Still another taxpayer trap will be sprung with the President's proposal to forgive some debt incurred by "overburdened" borrowers.

And how exactly is this going to be a money saver?
In addition, borrowers in the income-based repayment program who make payments for 20 years will be eligible to have the balance of their loan forgiven. Currently, graduates in the program are eligible for loan forgiveness after 25 years.

Plus the public service exemption after 10 years

are employed by any nonprofit, tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organization;
are employed by the federal government, a state government, local government, or tribal government (this includes the military and public schools and colleges); or
serve in a full-time AmeriCorps or Peace Corps position

have their debt wiped away



So in effect we are "saving" money by taking federally backed loans away from the banks yet will wind up spending far more than saved since the Pell grant program has mandatory increases, we will be eating a whole lot more of the unpaid debt with the forgiveness program and the sure to be wasteful govt beaurcracy that adminsters this entire deal.

Was the old system a good one? Probably not. Is the new system going to be cheaper or more efficent? Not a chance.

[Riot]

You are so out of your mind its ALMOST comical. If there was ANY way the senate could have passed a public option, it would have been done.

Don't tell me I'm out of my mind, when it's clear as day you don't know what happened the last two weeks of healthcare reform regarding the discussion on public option, and what the President did to squash it in order to get the reconciliation bill passed.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I predict that the student loan deal will be a debacle, and people will wish that they could deal with a bank.

And I predict it will be just fine. Since Clinton made changes years ago, it's been easy as pie to deal with the government regarding student loans - you can always get someone on the telephone, they are extremely responsive and quick, the website is interactive.

The banks did nothing except delay processing and confuse paperwork (my experience, thanks). The banks usually only had one person "trained" to do student loan paperwork, it was a nightmare. Thank goodness they are out of the picture.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Riot

Don't tell me I'm out of my mind, when it's clear as day you don't know what happened the last two weeks of healthcare reform regarding the discussion on public option, and what the President did to squash it in order to get the reconciliation bill passed.

I suggest to you and everyone else to read the bill , I am reading it and even though there is alot of government speak you can get to the meat of it , Im in the 200 pages . Interesting part is when they say there is going to be a committee to decide what end of life medicine you are alllowed to have . Awesome some dushe bag is going to say what you can and cannot have when you are dying . I know , I know insurance companies do it alreadyto an extent but at least it isnt my freaking government telling me.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

One of the many sad things about this bill are that the bright young minds in this country will stay away from medicine and study something that will actually allow them to make good money. The quality of our care and our doctors is going to be right where the Dem leadership wants it to be.. the same "quality" of medical care that we are supposed to look up to from Canada & Europe. Crappy Care that Riot and Obama pretend is so great.

There is nothing at all in the just-passed healthcare reform that has the government remotely involved in any way whatsoever in one's health care/quality of medicine.

Insurance companies dictate to a great extent the quality of medical care you receive. That is what turns off most of the doctors I talk to. The less that exists, the more doctors will enter the field.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Honu

I suggest to you and everyone else to read the bill , I am reading it and even though there is alot of government speak you can get to the meat of it , Im in the 200 pages . Interesting part is when they say there is going to be a committee to decide what end of life medicine you are alllowed to have . Awesome some dushe bag is going to say what you can and cannot have when you are dying . I know , I know insurance companies do it alreadyto an extent but at least it isnt my freaking government telling me.

What complete and utter nonsense. There is no end of life committee. That outright "death panel" lie was debunked last summer, for goodness sake.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

There is nothing at all in the just-passed healthcare reform that has the government remotely involved in any way whatsoever in one's health care/quality of medicine.

Insurance companies dictate to a great extent the quality of medical care you receive. That is what turns off most of the doctors I talk to. The less that exists, the more doctors will enter the field.

There's going to be an Exodus from doctors' ranks, not an increase. Sheer govt BS is already squeezing them.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

There's going to be an Exodus from doctors' ranks, not an increase. Sheer govt BS is already squeezing them.

Sheer insurance company BS is what has been squeezing doctors since the late 1970's in my experience, and is one of the reasons I became a DVM rather than pursue an MD. Too many complaints from the doctors I knew talking about how difficult it was to deal with it all.

The less insurance company BS controlling how you practice medicine, influencing your insurance (malpractice type) costs, and expanding your office costs (paperwork), the more doctors we'll have.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sheer insurance company BS is what has been squeezing doctors since the late 1970's in my experience, and is one of the reasons I became a DVM rather than pursue an MD. Too many complaints from the doctors I knew talking about how difficult it was to deal with it all.

The less insurance company BS controlling how you practice medicine, influencing your insurance (malpractice type) costs, and expanding your office costs (paperwork), the more doctors we'll have.

Wasn't there something recently about the 238bil shortfall in medicare payments to Doctors in this new healthcare plan?

[SOREHOOF]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sheer insurance company BS is what has been squeezing doctors since the late 1970's in my experience, and is one of the reasons I became a DVM rather than pursue an MD. Too many complaints from the doctors I knew talking about how difficult it was to deal with it all.

The less insurance company BS controlling how you practice medicine, influencing your insurance (malpractice type) costs, and expanding your office costs (paperwork), the more doctors we'll have.

Lawyers are blameless in the squeezing dept. right?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Wasn't there something recently about the 238bil shortfall in medicare payments to Doctors in this new healthcare plan?

Not that I've seen discussed - quote your reference? Only thing I've seen grossly is that it extends Medicare-delays shortfall for 9 more years.

Q+A: How does healthcare overhaul affect Medicare?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The sweeping healthcare overhaul the House of Representatives approved on Sunday includes about $455 billion in spending cuts for Medicare and other federal health programs over the next 10 years.

Here are some questions and answers about how the reforms will affect the Medicare healthcare program for the elderly.

WILL THE LEGISLATION CUT MEDICARE BENEFITS?

There are no cuts to the traditional Medicare benefit.

The lion's share of spending cuts are in Medicare Advantage -- a program that uses private firms such as Humana and UnitedHealth Group to deliver Medicare benefits. Many of these providers offer extra coverage and some of those extras could be dropped as Medicare Advantage subsidies are bought more in line with the cost of traditional Medicare benefits. Medicare Advantage payment rates will be frozen in 2011 and then gradually reduced giving companies time to adjust to the changes.

ARE THERE ANY MEDICARE BENEFIT CHANGES IN THE BILL?

Yes. Medicare will begin paying for annual wellness visits and increase reimbursements for primary care physicians.

Currently Medicare only pays for a general checkup when someone first enters the program and many health analysts believe regular check ups would help improve the overall health of elderly people and provide for better coordination of care.

Also the bill provides for an improvement in the Medicare prescription drug program. The current program includes a significant coverage gap that the legislation will eventually close. Currently people fall into this so-called doughnut hole falls after a total $2,700 is spent on drugs. Coverage begins again after $6,154 is spent.

In 2010, people who fall into the doughnut hole will get a $250 rebate. In 2011, they will get a 50 percent discount on brand-name drugs. By 2020, the doughnut hole will have been closed and 75 percent of drug costs will be covered.

HOW DOES MEDICARE ACHIEVE OTHER SAVINGS?

The legislation aims to capture productivity savings in the health system to save Medicare money.

Studies have shown huge cost variations in different parts of the country with little difference in health outcomes. The legislation provides for Medicare to test payment systems that are thought to promote better coordination and efficiency of care while maintaining or improving the quality of care.

Lawmakers hope the program will save billions of dollars by avoiding duplication of services and by providing better coordination of care for people with chronic conditions. The main aim of these delivery system reforms is to reward a quality of care rather than a quantity of services.

The bill also establishes an independent payment advisory board that will make recommendations on how to save money in Medicare and extend the financial solvency of the program.

The bill also provides more money to fight Medicare fraud.

WHAT HAPPENS ON THE MEDICARE PAYROLL TAX?

Most taxpayers will not pay the higher Medicare payroll tax. The bill calls for raising the tax to 2.35 percent from the current 1.45 percent for individuals earning $200,000 or more and for couples earning $250,000 or more. The legislation would also apply the tax to some investment income for those high-income groups.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by SOREHOOF

Lawyers are blameless in the squeezing dept. right?

?? Not in my opinion.

[Riot]

So in effect we are "saving" money by taking federally backed loans away from the banks yet will wind up spending far more than saved since the Pell grant program has mandatory increases, we will be eating a whole lot more of the unpaid debt with the forgiveness program and the sure to be wasteful govt beaurcracy that adminsters this entire deal.

Why are you ignoring and not including saving the millions the banks take in fees? That is the direct equal funding for the increase in the Pell program.

The forgiveness programs are expected to be a wash (no essential change from current) from what I've read.

The "wasteful government beaurocracy that administers this entire deal" is already long in place, and has been doing a pretty impressively good job, from my 15 years of contact with them.

Now please be consistent, and go over to the other thread, and explain how Obama opening up drilling off the southeast US shore, and closing off Bristol Bay, is a leftist, progressive entitlement program that will end up costing us billions in unforseen charges and expense.

[SOREHOOF]

I'm sure the Govt. will be saving the tax $$ collected in the next 4 yrs. to put towards Obamacare, and not just spend it on whatever social program comes along. They are the picture of thriftyness!

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Riot

Not that I've seen discussed - quote your reference? Only thing I've seen grossly is that it extends Medicare-delays shortfall for 9 more years.

http://www.democraticunderground.com...75175.......on short notice

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Riot

And I predict it will be just fine. Since Clinton made changes years ago, it's been easy as pie to deal with the government regarding student loans - you can always get someone on the telephone, they are extremely responsive and quick, the website is interactive.

The banks did nothing except delay processing and confuse paperwork (my experience, thanks). The banks usually only had one person "trained" to do student loan paperwork, it was a nightmare. Thank goodness they are out of the picture.

thank goodness indeed.
so much for your efficiency and streamlining pipedream. the CBO says it will add $52 billion to the deficit. So triple that and you will be close to the reality.


(CNSNews.com) -- The student loan overhaul legislation signed into law by President Barack Obama on Tuesday could add $52 billion to the deficit between 2010 and 2020 when the cost of the market risks and administrative expenses of the loans are taken into consideration, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) reported.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sheer insurance company BS is what has been squeezing doctors since the late 1970's in my experience, and is one of the reasons I became a DVM rather than pursue an MD. Too many complaints from the doctors I knew talking about how difficult it was to deal with it all.

The less insurance company BS controlling how you practice medicine, influencing your insurance (malpractice type) costs, and expanding your office costs (paperwork), the more doctors we'll have.

On one hand you are saying that the govt will have nothing to do with the quality your healthcare


"There is nothing at all in the just-passed healthcare reform that has the government remotely involved in any way whatsoever in one's health care/quality of medicine.

Insurance companies dictate to a great extent the quality of medical care you receive."


But here you infer that there will be less insurance company involvement

"The less insurance company BS controlling how you practice medicine, influencing your insurance (malpractice type) costs, and expanding your office costs (paperwork), the more doctors we'll have"



So which one is it?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

On one hand you are saying that the govt will have nothing to do with the quality your healthcare


"There is nothing at all in the just-passed healthcare reform that has the government remotely involved in any way whatsoever in one's health care/quality of medicine.

Insurance companies dictate to a great extent the quality of medical care you receive."


But here you infer that there will be less insurance company involvement

"The less insurance company BS controlling how you practice medicine, influencing your insurance (malpractice type) costs, and expanding your office costs (paperwork), the more doctors we'll have"



So which one is it?

Its whatever one makes Obama look more brilliant at any given time. Duh.