Circular Quay

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Cool. Absolutely looking forward to more baby races.
After watching the replay again, I'm impressed with how Chace City recovered and finished the race. He ran remarkably well to at least put himself back in the field after that start.

I agree about Chace City but it also makes me a little leery about anybody that came from behind in the race.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What's wrong with a critical analysis of the race both visually and relative to the other races run at Churchill Downs on Saturday?

Perhaps more " God wasn't he great " posts would have kept this thread more in line.

I'm just trying to give my analysis of the race today. Sorry if it differs from others. I, for one, just don't buy the hype and see no concrete evidence that I should.

I would say that your analysis has been given......repeatedly.

Are you trying to make sure that everyone comes over to your side of the fence, or what???

Beat a dead horse why don't you...

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I don't agree that he had " plenty of run left in him " but we can certainly agree to disagree. I feel highly confident he ran as fast as he could have TODAY.

I am not asking you to be " impressed ", but I offer those comparisons as the fairest way to gauge his effort against the other races today. I have no problem with you judging him visually, and respect that, but it is certainly not the only way a horse should be judged. Relative time is important...at least to me.

I think he did have plenty of run left in him, and I was standing about 50 feet from him between the finish and the 1/16th pole.

Crowning him as some sort of champion is out of line, but the little guy ran good and beat the ones who mattered today. He seemed to still be a handful after the race, as he was the first to return back and Bejarano was yelling at him the entire time to basically calm down. That little ****er was ready to run again, regardless of how many tenths of a second he was off the 15K claimers.

[ateamstupid]

The way I feel about CQ is that, at least sprinting, he has one very impressive furlong in him. In his debut, he used that impressive furlong to accelerate and blow away the maidens he was facing in the stretch. Today, he used that furlong to make up a lot of ground on some very nice 2-year-olds.

I'm not as impressed with CQ as I am with his turn of foot. He's got an uncanny ability to turn it on at the right time, and I think that's more valuable than anything with these immature babies.

Black, I totally see your point about the times, but I just feel like this horse has a last 1/8th in him like I've never (or at least hardly ever) seen in a 2-year-old. One of us will be proven right this summer, and I look forward to seeing CQ contest The Sanford and/or The Hopeful.

[Kasept]

It's very tough to draw definitive conclusions about juvies that win this race in particular and any 2 year old stake at this time of year.. Historically, and I mean going back a long way, the Bashford Manor has produced few runners that were anything beyond their first season racing.

Limehouse, Summer Squall and Yes Its True (2nd) went on to nice things, but Favorite Trick and Boston Harbor are more typical precocious Bashford victors. You have to go back to famed Black Gold to find a classic winner that won the Bashford Manor... Black Gold! That was 1923...

I think that yes, the time may have been a tad slow, but that Romans filly that Blackthroat was speaking of was rumored before yesterday's race to be the real deal. That filly was amazing, breaking slow, a little rank, then had to go around them and just cruised. Shes going to be the fave in the Adirondack(I suspect the Schuylerville is too quick back for her).
I for one have always railed on about being leery of closing sprinters when they stretch out, but Quay isnt exactly just a closing sprinter. The fractions were hot and he wasn't all that far off. I think his crusing speed is pretty fast. The fact that he just starts to quicken near the end of the race is absolutely indicative of a horse who will relish going longer. WHen that occurs his cruising speed will keep him closer to the more moderate paces that races going longer will have.
I dunno who thinks he was tired but whoever that is needs to take a look again. He was not even sweaty on a warm day when he came back, he had the appearance of a horse who was in the paddock before a race. And to the poster who pointed out Rafael being unable to chill him out on the way back, I caught the same thing on tv. He looked like he was a handful coming back.
His intelligence is apparent as well, he appears to be a highly competitive and smart animal who actually understands his object out there, something that some horses never get and even more simply don't care about, ever.
As far as Scat daddy goes, i realize that the barn thinks hes the greatest thing they ever had. But hes a johannesburg and I don't like his future prospects to stretch nearly as much as I do Quay's. Many a barn has loved a horse who appeared to be the best ever they had and had another one achieve more.
Once upon a time there was a high profile barn(like Pletchers) that had a horse who from day one they told the media was the goods. He was very good and won the BC Juvenile. All the following spring the trainer and press spoke of nothing but him while his stable mate won some other stakes under the radar. Come Derby day they entered the gate with one being one of the faves and the other going off at a very long price. The glorified one ran 3rd to his stable mate who went off at 28-1. The glorified one did go on to win the Preakness, but his stable mate kept grinding out wins in races like the Belmont, Swaps, and Travers. The horses name? Thunder Gulch, who outperformed Timber Country. I wouldn't be at all shocked if his son Quay went on to outperform Scat Daddy.

[Thunder Gulch]

I'm a believer in Q- can we keep that nickname?

Circular Quay is not a fast horse. Nothing special there other than that he was ready earlier. If you think this horse is special and has a big future based on 2 slow races in the spring of the 2yr old season you know nothing about horses. Most of the big names you will hear next spring have not even raced yet. Everyone knows that. These early races like the Bashford every year get people talking about how great they are and they almost always flame out. If early races mean anything I guess those AP Indys should just pack it in.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Circular Quay is not a fast horse. Nothing special there other than that he was ready earlier. If you think this horse is special and has a big future based on 2 slow races in the spring of the 2yr old season you know nothing about horses. Most of the big names you will hear next spring have not even raced yet. Everyone knows that. These early races like the Bashford every year get people talking about how great they are and they almost always flame out. If early races mean anything I guess those AP Indys should just pack it in.

Ah the doubter returns!!! Yeah you are right, you would never wanna own one like that. Absolutely no talent at all.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Circular Quay is not a fast horse. Nothing special there other than that he was ready earlier. If you think this horse is special and has a big future based on 2 slow races in the spring of the 2yr old season you know nothing about horses. Most of the big names you will hear next spring have not even raced yet. Everyone knows that. These early races like the Bashford every year get people talking about how great they are and they almost always flame out. If early races mean anything I guess those AP Indys should just pack it in.

Yeah, they should be embarrased to even accept the trophy for such a meaningless race.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Ah the doubter returns!!! Yeah you are right, you would never wanna own one like that. Absolutely no talent at all.

He won't even be a top 5 3yr old in that barn. He is not fast and everyone knows it. Typical Bashford Manor mediocrity. TWO YEAR OLD RACING AT THIS TIME OF YEAR MEANS NOTHING. How difficult is that for you to understand. It means they grew a little quicker, nothing else. This one isn't even fast.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

He won't even be a top 5 3yr old in that barn. He is not fast and everyone knows it. Typical Bashford Manor mediocrity. TWO YEAR OLD RACING AT THIS TIME OF YEAR MEANS NOTHING. How difficult is that for you to understand. It means they grew a little quicker, nothing else. This one isn't even fast.

Umm, ok, whatever you say.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Yeah, they should be embarrased to even accept the trophy for such a meaningless race.

Oracle is the one calling him great in this thread. He used the word great which is comical. Guys like Tabor aren't in it to win the Bashford Manor they are in it to win the derby and this horse and all horses that win the BM are not derby winners.

[dellinger63]

I guess this thread is a prime example of why there are mutual pools. We all watched the same race and digested it completely different.
Am I saying BCJ or Derby? No but this colt's performance was spectacular to me simply because of the way he won not anything to do with his time. Find me another 2 yr old who rates the entire race and late, finds a lane on the rail and explodes past the the field and I'll call that one a monster as well. Can't wait to see CQ's next start.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Umm, ok, whatever you say.

You think you know everything and know Pletcher, go ask the barn what they have. He is not a top 5 2yr old in that barn. He is running in sprints and he isn't even running faster than the girls.

Originally Posted by dellinger63

I guess this thread is a prime example of why there are mutual pools. We all watched the same race and digested it completely different.
Am I saying BCJ or Derby? No but this colt's performance was spectacular to me simply because of the way he won not anything to do with his time. Find me another 2 yr old who rates the entire race and late, finds a lane on the rail and explodes past the the field and I'll call that one a monster as well. Can't wait to see CQ's next start.

This horse will be exposed by Pletchers other three year olds, especially the Dogwood one that recently won. In fact I would guess CQ won't be in the Sanford where his two big 2yr olds are expected to run.

[dellinger63]

Just read CQ has a little half bro by Fugi Peg that hasn't been named yet.

CQ is a slow version of Officer. Not my words but the words of somebody who really knows horses.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Oracle is the one calling him great in this thread. He used the word great which is comical. Guys like Tabor aren't in it to win the Bashford Manor they are in it to win the derby and this horse and all horses that win the BM are not derby winners.

Yes I've read all the comments on the thread and NO ONE, repeat NO ONE, tried to build this horse up to be the derby winner. You're using a strawman.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Yes I've read all the comments on the thread and NO ONE, repeat NO ONE, tried to build this horse up to be the derby winner. You're using a strawman.

Fine no derby, how about "His win just now was one of the most incredible things I ever saw. This horse is the goods, and he will run all day. I don't care who debuts where and does what to who, as long as this horse is in training there won't be a two year old who will touch him. And how scary is it that he wants to go farther. I havent seen a two year old like this horse in over ten years. Its about time!!!"

That is a ridiculous statement for a slow horse that won by 1 length. Everyone, and I mean everyone that knows the Pletcher barn (or his father) knows that the Dogwood one they have is a better horse and the other one Scat Daddy is also better. So i guess the "there won't be a two year who will touch him" statement isn't over the top.