Which top 4 is a bigger laughingstock?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

She was more than a Belmont horse, watch her Rampart, Go For Wand the year earlier and Humana Distaff!

Well I was referring to 2004, so the Rampart would apply, but I think it's safe to say that Sightseek (from October 2003 to the end) excelled at Belmont.

NT

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

It all depends on what you want to see - a horse put into challenging spots or put in spots where they could win with ridiculous ease.

Azeri wasn't a total lock on paper in that years Distaff ... and she was one of my first four or so throwouts in that years Classic.

She was basically beaten 10 with a very good trip at 15/1 odds in a race she probably should have been 50/1 in. As it turned out though - yeah - she probably wins that years Distaff by 2 or 3.

It was a classic case of Lukas overlooking the correct spot to shoot for the moon.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

If you're trying to argue that a 5th place finish in the Classic did more for Azeri's legacy than winning a 2nd Distaff would have, I couldn't possibly disagree more. She finished 5th, it's not like she contended, even if it was one of the toughest Classic fields ever. I agree with you in general when it comes to trying bold things with exceptionally talented female horses, but this was not a case where Azeri had nothing left to prove. A 2nd Distaff would have been another feather in her cap, or at least more of one than a 5th in the Classic.

I also wasn't certain that she was the best female in the country at that time. She traded decisions with Sightseek (who was a Belmont horse for course) but neither had proven they were decidedly better than the other.

Ok, let me ask you this question. Going into the BC, pretty much everyone had Azeri and Sightseek as the 1/2 older females in the country, in either order right? If you thought Azeri was #1 going in and she would have won the Distaff, how would that have changed your opinion of her? If you thought she was #2 going in, how would a win in a Distaff lacking Sightseek have changed your opinion? I don't think a win would have changed opinions either way. However, as close as the race between them was, a loss in the Distaff would have likely cost her the championship. I thought the Distaff was a no-win situation while the Classic was a no-lose situation.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Well I was referring to 2004, so the Rampart would apply, but I think it's safe to say that Sightseek (from October 2003 to the end) excelled at Belmont.

NT

Sightseek was pretty much fine everywhere ... I know she was 0-for-5 at Santa Anita - had a couple of bad 4ths there - and was beaten everytime she shipped West ... but, she had a few good races there in defeat earlier on in her career.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Lukas gave Azeri a chance to show everyone, and I was a non-believer before he got her, just how good she really was.

Horses often show more in defeat than they do in victory. Lukas gave her a chance to lose. Compare it to testing in college, where the tests are designed so that nobody can get a perfect score, and the scores are graded on a curve. You learn little about a student's true capabilities when they get a perfect score. One person's 100 is not the same as another's per se.

If you put Zenyatta and Rachel Alexandra together on the racetrack, especially in a situation that is reasonably fair for both, you will learn much more about them than we did this past Saturday. In all likelihood, both will emerge with their reputations furthered.

Seattle Slew's losing effort to Exceller is a great illustration you don't always have to win in College as you say, to further a reputation. I always resented Azeri when she raced under Laura D, but gained a new respect for her under Lukas. I hope Zen's connections realize they may be doing more harm than good.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Azeri wasn't a total lock on paper in that years Distaff ... and she was one of my first four or so throwouts in that years Classic.

She was basically beaten 10 with a very good trip at 15/1 odds in a race she probably should have been 50/1 in. As it turned out though - yeah - she probably wins that years Distaff by 2 or 3.

It was a classic case of Lukas overlooking the correct spot to shoot for the moon.

No one shoots for the moon (and sometimes hits) like Lukas.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Yeah - only because he's had a whole lot to shoot at it with for a long, long, long time.

Chip Wooley can miss with his next 25 and ruin them all badly in the process and he'd still be way ahead of Lukas percentage wise.

[10 pnt move up]

Sightseek got smoked at 2/5 by Adoration in the biggest race of her life, that says it all to me.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Sightseek got smoked at 2/5 by Adoration in the biggest race of her life, that says it all to me.

She was much better than that performance would indicate. She was also much much much much better at Belmont Park.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Not trying to nitpick or be contrarian like some when they see a DrugS post lately. Just happen to think highly of Paasch.

Paasch is reminiscent of Brian Mayberry back in the early '90s. Very strong in the summer and fall with juveniles before burning them out well before the New Year.

He was loaded for bear a couple of summers ago, with Prime Ruler, Principle Secret, and She's Included. The filly never started again after the BC and the next time the two colts won it was well over a year between drinks for each...and for claiming tags to boot. Honestly, I don't know if he's won a race of consequence with a horse older than 2 (unless you count Prime Ruler's minor stakes win at Fairplex). Other fizzled out 2yo stars include Hello Lucky, Diplomat Lady, and Kamsack (whom he brought out off a 3 or 4 year layoff to run for $25K).

In that respect, its a small miracle Stardom Bound was able to do anything at all this year.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

Not trying to nitpick or be contrarian like some when they see a DrugS post lately. Just happen to think highly of Paasch.

Paasch is reminiscent of Brian Mayberry back in the early '90s. Very strong in the summer and fall with juveniles before burning them out well before the New Year.

He was loaded for bear a couple of summers ago, with Prime Ruler, Principle Secret, and She's Included. The filly never started again after the BC and the next time the two colts won it was well over a year between drinks for each...and for claiming tags to boot. Honestly, I don't know if he's won a race of consequence with a horse older than 2 (unless you count Prime Ruler's minor stakes win at Fairplex). Other fizzled out 2yo stars include Hello Lucky, Diplomat Lady, and Kamsack (whom he brought out off a 3 or 4 year layoff to run for $25K).

In that respect, its a small miracle Stardom Bound was able to do anything at all this year.

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

He's also a very likely future trainer of a DT Stables horse ... as he's portly and stuff.

Gotta a lot going for him...

When a trainer has stuff.
I prefer rotund trainers, but portly will do.

[tanner12oz]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Last years BC Juv Fillies:


OK, so, you have toast, toast, toast, and a dead horse.

dont sugar coat it...tell us how you really feel. i spit out my drink reading that. CLASSIC!

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

It all depends on what you want to see - a horse put into challenging spots or put in spots where they could win with ridiculous ease.

Obviously I love Sightseek, but she didn't exactly have the most interesting campaign.

Horse needed the easy turns at Belmont to run her best. There have been a number of of large, big-striding horses (e.g. Easy Goer) who find the turns on 8f circuits too tight; they have to shorten stride to maintain their balance, while at Belmont they can continue striding out. Obviously, if running against lesser competition they can overcome the difficulty, but if the competition is top notch they can struggle.

[johnny pinwheel]

the whole breeders cup was a joke. i think zenyatta is the only horse that won on the poly thats won since in this country, not including turf racing.. oh yeah , its there again this year.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

the whole breeders cup was a joke. i think zenyatta is the only horse that won on the poly thats won since in this country, not including turf racing.. oh yeah , its there again this year.

Stardom Bound

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

Stardom Bound

yea, two grade 1's, its nothing