Syn to Dirt Beyer Converter

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by philcski

I think so and I hope so. However, there isn't much competition in her division this year so we may not know how good she really is until she faces the boys or older fillies.

Will we really learn anything when she faces older fillies/mares? Proud Spell is retired and Zenyatta is unlikely to run outside of California.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Riot

At Keeneland, the lack of favorites winning is due more, IMO, to the variety of horses (especially young horses) shipping in from all over (mixing of populations that have never run against each other before).

Saratoga has a lot of that ... and yet favorites still win at a solid 106-for-254 (42%) clip in dirt stake races this decade. They are 38-for-105 in turf graded stakes this decade.


On Keeneland's synthetic track - favorites have gone a mind-bogglingly dismal 6-for-54 in stake races.

Street Sense losing to Domincan in a near five way photo is an example of some of the goofy results.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Saratoga has a lot of that ... and yet favorites still win at a solid 106-for-254 (42%) clip in dirt stake races this decade. They are 38-for-105 in turf graded stakes this decade.


On Keeneland's synthetic track - favorites have gone a mind-bogglingly dismal 6-for-54 in stake races.

Street Sense losing to Domincan in a near five way photo is an example of some of the goofy results.

Point taken about SAR. I don't think that dirt courses can change (loosen up, tighten up) throughout the day as much as Polytrack can.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by philcski

Yes.



They were a lot closer than given credit for. On dirt, no- Rags to Riches was an outstanding filly, probably the best of the last 3-4 years. On turf or synthetic, maybe. But unfortunately, due to injury and early retirement and because they ran for the same trainer, we never got to find out.

On the subject of Panty Raid, can anyone name the horse that beat her in the Bourbonette at Turfway Park? This horse has won stakes races on all 3 surfaces and has twice finished 2nd in grade 1 company last year.

[cmorioles]

While I agree moisture has a lot to do with where winners come from (front or back) on synthetics, it has nothing to do with the figures. Even on wet synthetic tracks dominated by frontrunners, the figures come back "tighter" than they do on dirt tracks. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but just the way it is.

One thing I find funny in these discussions is the way some people act like a front runner has never won on turf.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by CSC

On the subject of Panty Raid, can anyone name the horse that beat her in the Bourbonette at Turfway Park? This horse has won stakes races on all 3 surfaces and has twice finished 2nd in grade 1 company last year.

Sealy Hill. She's a damn nice filly.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by philcski

Sealy Hill. She's a damn nice filly.

Yep, gave her backers a thrill at SA last year when she ran into that toughie Forever Together.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by CSC

Yep, gave her backers a thrill at SA last year when she ran into that toughie Forever Together.

And made me nearly wet my pants thinking I wasn't going to get out of that leg in multi-race wagers for a minute.

Really nice horse, just the kind who never seems to get any respect, and I'm totally guilty of that too...I don't usually give her any credit.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by CSC

Yep, gave her backers a thrill at SA last year when she ran into that toughie Forever Together.

I went bananas after that race. Go back and read my posts if you want a laugh on a boring monday.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by philcski

I think so and I hope so. However, there isn't much competition in her division this year so we may not know how good she really is until she faces the boys or older fillies.

she knocked over two seconds off the oaklawn track record a couple races back. it's what i always saw from days past, if a horse had no competition, they still had the clock. i think she's the best horse in training-and i'm generally very stingy with praise.

[Benny Leger]

Originally Posted by CSC

On the subject of Panty Raid, can anyone name the horse that beat her in the Bourbonette at Turfway Park? This horse has won stakes races on all 3 surfaces and has twice finished 2nd in grade 1 company last year.

She would have won the Bourbonette that day if she would not have broke through the gate and ran a half mile or so before being caught by the outrider, and placed back in the gate. I was in line to cancel the ticket when they broke.

[smuthg]

Did Nashoba's Key ever win on the Dirt? I know she got her grade 1's on the turf and "misc"...

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by smuthg

Did Nashoba's Key ever win on the Dirt? I know she got her grade 1's on the turf and "misc"...

She never ran on dirt.

NT

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

One thing I find funny in these discussions is the way some people act like a front runner has never won on turf.

Nothing wrong with 'earning' a victory on the front end. I took a quick look at a number of dates at SA and I found at least a few wire jobs on each day. Nothing wrong with that. And, since these aren't match races we're dealing with, nothing wrong with the setup of the race determining the winner.

You really should come over here more often for some engaging exchanges, rather than indulging all those trainers, owners, and yo yo's over at PA. You're just about the only one out there with a clue as to pace.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Why?

The Pro-Ride at Santa Anita is crazy closer friendly more often than not. It's not uncommon to see horses loafing on the lead through easy fractions and get mowed down by several horses late.

I've seen the charts and research CM Oreo did on it - and it basically confirms the obvious.

In Well Armed's final Dubai World Cup prep he was crawling in a big way and still got ran down.

I think it's more closer friendly than even Keeneland's poly. Evita Argentina steam rolled the boys in the Grade 2 San Vincente - she struggled to close ground when a dull 4th at 3/5 in the Beaumont. Stardom Bound struggled to close big ground when 3rd at 3/5 in the Ashland. Ventura didn't have that same explosive finish she did in the Breeders Cup at Keeneland when she lost the Madison at 2/5. Georgie Boy didn't get his chance. Pioneer of the Nile was 3rd beaten 7 lengths when he ran on it at age 2 in that race Square Eddie dominated.

......i couldnt agree more. that place has become a nightmare for me. as you stated, the hollywood surface is alot closer to dirt .

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Anytime you are Curlin and you lost to Tiag-slow ... you are disgraced.

Is the love affair finally over?

[philcski]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I just hope he's been able to overcome his love for pink shirts.

http://www.kentuckyoaks.com/2009/new...ng-about-four-

Pink accents my olive guid-ian skin. At least that's what the fashion TV shows tell me.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

......i couldnt agree more. that place has become a nightmare for me. as you stated, the hollywood surface is alot closer to dirt .

You prefer wire to wire jobs x 9, sorry I couldn't resist.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by philcski

http://www.kentuckyoaks.com/2009/new...ng-about-four-

Pink accents my olive guid-ian skin. At least that's what the fashion TV shows tell me.

woo-hoo, pink!

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

You're just about the only one out there with a clue as to pace.

You wont be getting a Christmas card from Randy Moss with comments like that.