Curlin retired?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He won the Met Mile where they went much faster fractions, I'm sure if the second turn or distance were the issue he would have made it further than six furlongs before stopping so badly. Why is it so implausable that he has some kind of physical issue especially considering that his recent past?

yeah you're right. a mystery illness is the only possible explanation. case closed.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

yeah you're right. a mystery illness is the only possible explanation. case closed.

ASide from mystery ailment or going bad during the race, the only other explanation is he got classed down real bad by running inside Curlin for a half. That's possible I guess. But DP is a pretty nice horse. They don't generally quit that bad that early unless there's a reason.

Reminded me of Daheer in the Donn this year.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It just comes off a bit hypocritical that you defend Divine Park's performance. Trust me, I believe you that he has and probably still has physical issues. But on the other hand are not even open to the possibility that Curlin's somewhat subpar performance, in which he still won the race, could be explained by him not being 100%. Add to it your personal connection to Devine Park.

Where is there a defense? He missed a month of works and was sent to a clinic to get checked out. In his next start he gets beat 25 lengths. This is a defense? It looks to me to be logical that something was amiss instaed of blaming the distance which is a whole 220 yards further than his grade 1 win. If Curlin wasnt 100% I'm sure we would have heard about it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

yeah you're right. a mystery illness is the only possible explanation. case closed.

Yeah your right, he was 25 lengths short of his best distance

[Cannon Shell]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/96423.html

Divine Park, the Metropolitan Handicap winner, is also nominated to the Whitney, but trainer Kiaran McLaughlin said Wednesday that he is leaning toward waiting for the Woodward on Aug. 30.

McLaughlin said he would make a final decision after Divine Park works this weekend.

"We're probably going to go to the Woodward, but he if he works 47, 59, 1:12 he might go in the Whitney," McLaughlin said.

Divine Park has only worked once since beating Commentator in the Met. He was sent to the Mid-Atlantic Equine Clinic earlier this week for a bone scan that didn't reveal any abnormalities.



McLaughlin said Divine Park had missed a couple of works following the Met Mile and had taken a little bit longer than usual to warm up prior to his morning training. McLaughlin said Divine Park was to arrive in Saratoga on Wednesday and train regularly up to the Woodward.




Then he gets beat by 25. And I'm am the one promoting shaky theories?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Divine Park has only worked once since beating Commentator in the Met. He was sent to the Mid And I'm am the one promoting shaky theories?

I may no longer reply to some of your posts. That sickle n hammer deal is intimidating.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I never said anything about the distance. I agree something was wrong with DP. My point is, you are excusing his poor performance. Yet, in your eyes there is no excuse for Curlin's effort, albeit a winning one, because he is a star and there was nothing in the press before the race about him not being 100%. Because as we all know, there are no secrets in this game and everything is reported as is.

I think it is ridiclous to compare the two. I am sure that I know more about what is going on with Divine Park, Curlin, etc than the press or 99.9% of the public or even the backside. There are lots of things that I know about both horses and a lot of other things that you wont see printed or said yet I can't make a lot of those things public out of respect of the sources. Your insinuation that I am giving DP a break yet I am picking on Curlin because of my affilation with one is not only insulting it is idiotic. I said that I didn't think that Curlins race was very special which seemingly was obvious. I also pointed out that DP has had unresolved issues recently which seemed like a likely source of his poor race. Where anything personal comes out of it is beyond me. Arl Jim is the one who dismissed DP as unable to go two turns or the distance and seemed somehow insulted that I pointed out that he more than likely had a physical problem.

BTW- if Curlin DID have an issue coming out of the race it would not be shocking...

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Ahh, pulling the insider card. Nice. Sorry if I offended you Chuck as it was clearly not my intention. However, please don't insult my intelligence and act like you would be defending DP if you didn't have some connection to him. That was my point.

Come on Hoss'...if your opinion and CS's opinion don't match you can't blame him because he may be an "insider"....of course he has more info than we do and I think Chuck has proven that he doesn't post from his heart.

And yes..I'm obviously biased

[ELA]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

It just comes off a bit hypocritical that you defend Divine Park's performance. Trust me, I believe you that he has and probably still has physical issues. But on the other hand are not even open to the possibility that Curlin's somewhat subpar performance, in which he still won the race, could be explained by him not being 100%. Add to it your personal connection to Devine Park.

I won't speak to the "personal connection" aspect, but I do see your point. However, be that as it may, do you not really see the difference between the two? While the personal connection might cloud one person's judgement, that can cut both ways.

I see the two in completely different ways. I too wouldn't be shocked if Curlin came out of the race with "something" but that's neither here nor there.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Ahh, pulling the insider card. Nice. Sorry if I offended you Chuck as it was clearly not my intention. However, please don't insult my intelligence and act like you would be defending DP if you didn't have some connection to him. That was my point.

Please display your intellegence and show us where pointing out that a horse most likely has physical issues is a defense. Do you think I care what you and jim think about the horse or any horse? What difference would it make to anyone? Point out one occasion where I have ever touted this horse or said anything overly positive about him. All I did was point out the FACT that the horse has had some issues that have led to the PUBLIC acknowledgement that he visited a clinic because of those issues which were unresolved. A career worst performance following that visit surely would make such a sharp racing mind like yours to put 2 and 2 together and conclude that perhaps something is still amiss. However i was mistaken as you are convinced that I personally am trying to defend the horse using this information in some crazy theory. You know who I am yet I have no idea who you are but you feel it is your right to make insinuations followed by backhanded apologies like the one above. Being an "insider" is hardly a bad thing and if you can't understand that knowing things that aren't privy to the public doesnt make me any better than anyone else but it does give me a far greater pool of information to form opinions on then the problem is yours.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

As I said to Eric and Bob, my intention was not what this has become. I'm not really sure why you are so insulted that I insinuated your rushing to the defense was because of your personal connection. it's a natural thing, I would do the same thing. But, by your reaction, I can tell I touched a nerve. Again, not my intention. But I have to know, what is so bad about what I insinuated?

Your insinuation was misguided and despite providing links and quotes to back an extremely plausible theory, you continued to assume that the only reason that I was saying anything was because of my connection with the horse. You actually were the one who rushed to AJ's defense when I pointed out that perhaps physical issues were more to blame for the horses poor race than the distance or two trns and he replied as if I was making something up.

[CSC]

Is it correct to assume that Divine Park's entry into the Woodward had more to do with the Owner's intentions to run rather than the Trainer's? I would be surprised Mclaughlin would run a horse of this caliber if he was less than 100% which he most likely was by his non race Saturday, something's not right here, Mclaughlin is simply too good a trainer to run a suspect horse.

[Danzig]

perhaps they went by the clean bill of health given by the clinic, while ignoring what the horse was indicating?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I had pictured that Divine Park would run the race that Pass The Point ran, and vice versa. Pass The Point ran huge. The more I think about it, I don't believe it was anything other than the usual solid performance from Curlin and not really indicative of any kind of regression.

kinda like how coal play ran huge at monmouth and BB didnt look "the same" but still ran him down.

The Haskell and Woodward looked really similar to me. BB ran a much faster time but Saratoga seems like a much slower track (especially at 1 1/8) than Monmouth.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Danzig

perhaps they went by the clean bill of health given by the clinic, while ignoring what the horse was indicating?

I hear you there, however I am a big believer in Trainer's normal patterns when handicapping. Maybe to a fault, there are some trainer's that have enough influence to not run even against owner's wishes. I think Mclaughlin is one of those Trainer's with a big enough reputation to do as he wishes, really I am confused why he was quoted as he fully expected Divine Park to run huge Sat, when all indications now seem to point the horse wasn't right. Some will say never listen to Trainers, they are full of $%$ but from my experience I have used comments to positive results before, either laying off horses or betting them.

[Linny]

Originally Posted by Quiet Chris

He is obviously a year older and a better horse. He hadn't run on the dirt in over a year and it shouldn't be surprising that he ran a 108 or 109 yesterday considering his last race.

What? Curlin ran on dirt 2x last fall, and in the Stepehn Foster. The Nad al Sheba track is a mix of dirt and synthetic so you can call it what you want.

[CSC]

I think the Bottom line is Curlin has looked rather ordinary his last 2 races, I hinted at this after his turf race, many dismissed it to the surface; however my reasoning was he had a great trip sitting off the leaders and really had no excuse for a horse of his stature to not pick them up down the lane, given the conditions of the race were written to him to a Tee. I would be surprised if this horse has many more races left in him and retirement as Chuck hinted can't be far off.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Linny

What? Curlin ran on dirt 2x last fall, and in the Stepehn Foster. The Nad al Sheba track is a mix of dirt and synthetic so you can call it what you want.

He was talking about the runner up.

I think Curlin's figure is a little high, but not grossly so. The Spinaway on Sunday appears to be inflated about 10 points. The pace was very hot and there was no running going on the last furlong at all.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think the Bottom line is Curlin has looked rather ordinary his last 2 races, I hinted at this after his turf race, many dismissed it to the surface; however my reasoning was he had a great trip sitting off the leaders and really had no excuse for a horse of his stature to pick them up down the lane, given the conditions of the race were written to him to a Tee. I would be surprised if this horse has many more races left in him and retirement as Chuck hinted can't be far off.

Actually his last three races have been pretty ordinary, the Foster wasn't anything special either.

I hope for his handlers' sake he's fine but I have been very underwhelmed lately.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Linny

What? Curlin ran on dirt 2x last fall, and in the Stepehn Foster. The Nad al Sheba track is a mix of dirt and synthetic so you can call it what you want.

You sure about the bolded part?