Praise For Del Mar

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What am I arguing? I just think your angles are basic handicapping. The public, as a whole doesn't know what they are doing, which is why skilled handicappers are able to make money.

I am in the middle with Poly right now. I don't think poly is as good or as bad as it is talked about here. But I do think it was rushed into places that really didn't need it, like California. But the surface, from what I have seen, and while not betting a ton, I watch almost every race, is not easy to gauge. A simple changing up capping isn't enough on a surface that is unpredictable.

California was in DESPERATE need for it. Santa Anita track was horrible about breakdowns as was Del Mar.

I actually don't think this is as much about the actual surface but the actual bottom of the track. When installing poly track, you essentially start from ground zero, thus installing an even track. The old 'bottom' of Arlington was horrible, which led to all those breakdowns last year, with the new bottom, we have had substantially less. The recent breakdowns were because the horses were sore and had major problems, but we haven't had any healthy horses break down because of the surface, not a one

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Disagree about Cali. They had breakdowns, but the reasons are not so clear.

Weren't a lot of the breakdowns on each surface last year because of sore horses? I seem to remember a fantastic article written by Christine janks about it. Seems like a sore horse will breakdown on any surface, so instead of spending millions and millions of dollars, how about making a concerned effort to get horses that have problems off of the track.

There were like 40 breakdowns, and about 20 of them were in the same exact on the track. Far turn near the rail

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

What track are you talking about?

Arlington

[Scav]

"The old handicappers, the ones that have been around 30 years, are all mixed up," he said. "It's very slow. It's a brand-new project. Our old tracks, the sandy loam, were fine. We started getting problems when they started adding wood products to them, and it would ball up in their feet."

Per Bruce Headley speaking about old school handicappers having problems.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/87604.html

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

He also said the way the old tracks were was fine. I'd also love to see these new school handicappers that are doing so good handicapping the stuff because I have not seen it.

If there is money to be made, they will come. You can be sure of that. It may be like a new market has opened up.

[pmayjr]

Originally Posted by Scav

Some people have been playing tracks like Del Mar and Hollywood Park for 20 years, they have all these built up angles and experiences with wagering. Perfect example is that Ata Dynaformer horse with EG Burnison or wahtever his name is. I had NO IDEA who tha person was, but for 20 years he has been sneaking horses in and someone caught on to it. The fact that the surface has changed, it has opened it up for younger people to create their own angles from the start, we are essentially getting new tracks thus new angles.

You don't beat this game right away, it takes experience, time and a beating. Right now, everyone is back to square one with polytrack

Scav,

The past 2 years have been the first 2 that I've started playing So-Cal tracks on a somewhat frequent basis. Why? The field sizes. Whether it has something to do with the switch to poly or not, the field sizes are getting bigger, and therefore bettable. Yuo're still seeing the 5 and 6-horse fields, but not nearly as much as a few years ago.

[JJP]

I believe Arlington had 24 breakdowns last year, not 40. As for the earlier comment about randomness with Polytrack, there's no question its more random. Until the majority of horses have run 5-6 times over it, one can only draw limited conclusions. I'll bet TP, where 95% of the non-maidens have run over it, and I feel speed at least has some chance. But the crap that they run on at Kee, AP and Dmr is just brutal to watch. It looks like all the speed tires, and the deep closers can't get in gear quick enough, and the midpack runners basically inherit the win with their one paced style. And ALL the runners look like they are struggling in the stretch. Let's hope PETA doesnt watch these debacles.

I find some horseman's comments very strange: they talk about the surface not "breaking away" like dirt, yet the horses' hooves must be sinking in further because the times are so much slower. What gives? And supposedly the horses come back after a race or workout and barely blowing? Yet it seems that every horse is struggling in the stretch....yet another contradiction.

[theiman]

I have a question regarding the DM surface vs other polytracks at Arlington, Keeneland, TP, and Woodbine. It seems DM Management was insistant on not watering the track, as some horsemen had asked to perhaps tighten it up, or make it firmer. Now DM will get no rain during their meet at all. Yet the other polytracks all get rain during their meets and the tracks seem to play fairer or at least time wise a bit more normal. What effect would one or two rounds of the water truck, a day, have on the track, that rain at the other places have been able to handle? I cant see it hurting the track as the rain is supposed to filter thru the track and keep it "fast" all the time. Was it something to do with not putting the "jelly" thing into the DM polytrack vs the other poly's?

I am all for a safe surface yet it seems the research and scenarios to keep a surface safe, and competive were not done.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by JJP

I believe Arlington had 24 breakdowns last year, not 40. As for the earlier comment about randomness with Polytrack, there's no question its more random. Until the majority of horses have run 5-6 times over it, one can only draw limited conclusions. I'll bet TP, where 95% of the non-maidens have run over it, and I feel speed at least has some chance. But the crap that they run on at Kee, AP and Dmr is just brutal to watch. It looks like all the speed tires, and the deep closers can't get in gear quick enough, and the midpack runners basically inherit the win with their one paced style. And ALL the runners look like they are struggling in the stretch. Let's hope PETA doesnt watch these debacles.

I find some horseman's comments very strange: they talk about the surface not "breaking away" like dirt, yet the horses' hooves must be sinking in further because the times are so much slower. What gives? And supposedly the horses come back after a race or workout and barely blowing? Yet it seems that every horse is struggling in the stretch....yet another contradiction.

JJ, I was including morning breakdowns also in that 40 number, 24 was during races. I think that 40 number is actually larger

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

JJ, I was including morning breakdowns also in that 40 number, 24 was during races. I think that 40 number is actually larger

Why are you up so late?

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Scav

JJ, I was including morning breakdowns also in that 40 number, 24 was during races. I think that 40 number is actually larger

Thats quite possible if you factor in the morning training.

I think there's going to be one very strong angle when Hawthorne opens: speed horses who tired at AP.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why are you up so late?

No job, I can do whatever I want now, it is awesome

Originally Posted by JJP

I think there's going to be one very strong angle when Hawthorne opens: speed horses who tired at AP.

JJP, lets keep that angle to ourselves, that is an amazing thought process right there. We can really unload on that the first couple days and let the minions figure it out at a later date. Great find right there. Speed horses that are off form suddenly find Hawthorne form. Big fan right there.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

No job, I can do whatever I want now, it is awesome

Why aren't you in Saratoga then?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why aren't you in Saratoga then?

I have alot of commitments in the next couple weeks up here. A wedding, handicapping contest, two Cubs games, and a Bears preseason game. Still cleaning my wounds from the first trip, almost healed.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Why aren't you in Saratoga then?

he'd be handy around the barn...

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Scav

I have alot of commitments in the next couple weeks up here. A wedding, handicapping contest, two Cubs games, and a Bears preseason game. Still cleaning my wounds from the first trip, almost healed.

I hope you didn't pay for those tickets. Preseason football is absolutely unwatchable.

One of the biggest travesties in sports is the NFL Owners forcing their season ticket holders to buy tickets to preseason games at full price.

I can't give them away, nobody wants to go see a 4-12 team (for that matter, I couldn't give them away after they won the Super Bowl), playing scrubs after one series, in 95 degree heat with not a breath of wind blowing through the stadium.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

I hope you didn't pay for those tickets. Preseason football is absolutely unwatchable.

One of the biggest travesties in sports is the NFL Owners forcing their season ticket holders to buy tickets to preseason games at full price.

I can't give them away, nobody wants to go see a 4-12 team (for that matter, I couldn't give them away after they won the Super Bowl), playing scrubs after one series, in 95 degree heat with not a breath of wind blowing through the stadium.

We always go to one preseason just for the hell of it, it keeps us out of trouble. Never pay for them.

Word here is that the Bears are HUNGRY this year and no let down. Schedule is playable and the offensive looks to be real serious. Who knows if that holds but pretty excited. Upgrading the jerseys this weekend as I am going to get a Benson and a Harris Jersey, so when they are on offensive going to rock the benson jersey and when on D going to rock the Harris jersey, and no, not Walt Harris.

[viscount26]

Originally Posted by Scav

We always go to one preseason just for the hell of it, it keeps us out of trouble. Never pay for them.

Word here is that the Bears are HUNGRY this year and no let down. Schedule is playable and the offensive looks to be real serious. Who knows if that holds but pretty excited. Upgrading the jerseys this weekend as I am going to get a Benson and a Harris Jersey, so when they are on offensive going to rock the benson jersey and when on D going to rock the Harris jersey, and no, not Walt Harris.

I only got to one Patriots game last year. Good job it was against the Bears Scav.

[ArlJim78]

I agree with Bigs, there is nothing worse than preseason football.

[dearheart54]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I agree with Bigs, there is nothing worse than preseason football.

Pre-season baseball isn't all it's cracked up to be either.