Digger?!?! Bad news for Hard Spun

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

44 and change for 2yos in August at 7 furlongs at Saratoga is pretty suicidal. If they'll let him run against 2yos again then he might have a shot.

I agree, I suppose I'm just not certain he wouldn't be effective at 7fs or maybe a mile. More than that and/or a 2nd turn- no way.

NT

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Have you heard that somewhere or is it speculation? I'm wondering because that is a bit of a common opinion.

NT

I do not have the luxury that some do of repeating unfounded rumors and I never repeat things I know in confidence.

Other than the Cigar Mile and King's Bishop, I doubt there is really a Grade 1 left for Circular Quay to win, and considering Coolmore's operation, with breeding dollars of the utmost importance, I don't see why they would risk devaluing a horse who has very little upside potential.

They took a shot in the Preakness, as it was really the only choice other than the Met Mile ( where he may well have been competitive ), in an attempt to increase his value. Sure, they can throw him in the Belmont and pray, but otherwise I doubt they will risk exposing him anymore.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I do not have the luxury that some do of repeating unfounded rumors and I never repeat things I know in confidence.

Other than the Cigar Mile and King's Bishop, I doubt there is really a Grade 1 left for Circular Quay to win, and considering Coolmore's operation, with breeding dollars of the utmost importance, I don't see why they would risk devaluing a horse who has very little upside potential.

They took a shot in the Preakness, as it was really the only choice other than the Met Mile ( where he may well have been competitive ), in an attempt to increase his value. Sure, they can throw him in the Belmont and pray, but otherwise I doubt they will risk exposing him anymore.

I respect your discretion and guarantee the only "industry insider" information I'm ever privy to is who Travis Stone likes in the PK4.

Considering CQ has had a rather poor year in terms of adding to his value it would make perfect sense to retire him. I suppose they could point to the King's Bishop, using the logic that he could get a fast pace and that he knows how to pick up the pieces when a race falls apart.

The Belmont would be a horrendous spot for him- of that I'm quite sure.

NT

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

I respect your discretion and guarantee the only "industry insider" information I'm ever privy to is who Travis Stone likes in the PK4.

Considering CQ has had a rather poor year in terms of adding to his value it would make perfect sense to retire him. I suppose they could point to the King's Bishop, using the logic that he could get a fast pace and that he knows how to pick up the pieces when a race falls apart.

The Belmont would be a horrendous spot for him- of that I'm quite sure.

NT

I can say that I spent a little time with Sun King on Wednesday and he's plenty pissed at the disrespect King Glorious has shown him on the board. He didn't say that explicitely but I felt it.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I can say that I spent a little time with Sun King on Wednesday and he's plenty pissed at the disrespect King Glorious has shown him on the board. He didn't say that explicitely but I felt it.

If Sun King's pissed and let you know and C P West tried to bite you then I'm going to bet every Nick Zito 2YO debuting soon all the way through Saratoga. A feisty, hot barn is dangerous.

NT

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

If Sun King's pissed and let you know and C P West tried to bite you then I'm going to bet every Nick Zito 2YO debuting soon all the way through Saratoga. A feisty, hot barn is dangerous.

NT

They probably sensed that I was yet another lame horseplayer bothering people who work hard for a living.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I do not have the luxury that some do of repeating unfounded rumors and I never repeat things I know in confidence.

Other than the Cigar Mile and King's Bishop, I doubt there is really a Grade 1 left for Circular Quay to win, and considering Coolmore's operation, with breeding dollars of the utmost importance, I don't see why they would risk devaluing a horse who has very little upside potential.

They took a shot in the Preakness, as it was really the only choice other than the Met Mile ( where he may well have been competitive ), in an attempt to increase his value. Sure, they can throw him in the Belmont and pray, but otherwise I doubt they will risk exposing him anymore.

Their decision to skip the Wood (assuming he truly was capable of running there) keeps looking more and more foolish everyday. He would have only had to outclose Sightseeing and he'd be a G1 winner at 2 and 3 and a wet dream for Coolmore as a stallion.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Their decision to skip the Wood (assuming he truly was capable of running there) keeps looking more and more foolish everyday. He would have only had to outclose Sightseeing and he'd be a G1 winner at 2 and 3 and a wet dream for Coolmore as a stallion.

If he hadn't run in the Preakness you would have scoffed at anyone who suggested he wouldn't have outclosed CP West....so why is it a fait accompli that he would have gotten by Sightseeing, much less NoBiz, and won the Wood?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I think his best races will come in elongated sprints.

He'd have run much better than most people think in the Met Mile.

I also have some doubts he'd have won the Wood.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

If he hadn't run in the Preakness you would have scoffed at anyone who suggested he wouldn't have outclosed CP West....so why is it a fait accompli that he would have gotten by Sightseeing, much less NoBiz, and won the Wood?

No guarantee at all but I doubt he was ever going to find another easier G1 this year than that. Skipping it was foolish. CP West ran a very nice race in the Preakness.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

No guarantee at all but I doubt he was ever going to find another easier G1 this year than that. Skipping it was foolish. CP West ran a very nice race in the Preakness.

CP West ran a terrific race in the Preakness and considering his trip, and premature move along with Hard Spun, I imagine had Circular Quay skipped the race his dwindling group of supporters would have claimed he would have been no worse than third.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I think his best races will come in elongated sprints.

He'd have run much better than most people think in the Met Mile.

I also have some doubts he'd have won the Wood.

I honestly think there is a very good chance he would have won the Met Mile and said so before the race.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

CP West ran a terrific race in the Preakness and considering his trip, and premature move along with Hard Spun, I imagine had Circular Quay skipped the race his dwindling group of supporters would have claimed he would have been no worse than third.

Well, you are totally off if you think I'm in that group. I hate the horse but see a little Jazil in him in terms of rollling out 24-25 fractions that could make him as likely as anybody if Curlin makes an early move or comes up flat in the Belmont.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Well, you are totally off if you think I'm in that group. I hate the horse but see a little Jazil in him in terms of rollling out 24-25 fractions that could make him as likely as anybody if Curlin makes an early move or comes up flat in the Belmont.

Hate?

I was just making an analogy relative to saying " all he had to do was get by Sightseeing " in order to win the Wood in terms of the Preakness.

Jazil showed an affinity for getting a distance and could roll at the end of longer races. Circular Quay has pretty much proven the opposite. He wants less ground....not more.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Hate?

I was just making an analogy relative to saying " all he had to do was get by Sightseeing " in order to win the Wood in terms of the Preakness.

Jazil showed an affinity for getting a distance and could roll at the end of longer races. Circular Quay has pretty much proven the opposite. He wants less ground....not more.

In the relative sense. I don't like Coolmore at all, I find the trainer very hard to root for, and I think he's been vastly overrated off a dream setup in the Hopeful. Do I truly hate him? Of course not. On a comparitive scale of my feelings toward horses with love and hate being the extremes then he falls on the hate end. A scale of like and don't like just seems far too mild to express your opinions.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

In the relative sense. I don't like Coolmore at all, I find the trainer very hard to root for, and I think he's been vastly overrated off a dream setup in the Hopeful. Do I truly hate him? Of course not. On a comparitive scale of my feelings toward horses with love and hate being the extremes then he falls on the hate end. A scale of like and don't like just seems far too mild to express your opinions.

I hear ya. I'm not a fan of Circular Quay either but mostly because of undeserved accolades placed on him. To me he has never run a particularly good race and all his accomplishments were when he was the beneficiary of perfect setups. To me he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that while a talented horse he is nowhere near as good as some claimed early in his career. Frankly, in his two biggest races he moved right with the eventual winner, Street Sense both times, and got drowned.

I guess I would say I have " hated his chances " in many races......not him. I am, however, sorry that he has not run in more appropriate spots as I am at least curious as to how he would have done.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I hear ya. I'm not a fan of Circular Quay either but mostly because of undeserved accolades placed on him. To me he has never run a particularly good race and all his accomplishments were when he was the beneficiary of perfect setups. To me he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that while a talented horse he is nowhere near as good as some claimed early in his career. Frankly, in his two biggest races he moved right with the eventual winner, Street Sense both times, and got drowned.

I guess I would say I have " hated his chances " in many races......not him. I am, however, sorry that he has not run in more appropriate spots as I am at least curious as to how he would have done.

I don't see him as being anywhere in the league of Sun King or Silver Wagon so considering they couldn't close and get it done in the Met Mile I don't think he would have been anywhere close. In the Wood I think there was a reasonable chance he could have won. To skip that for the Derby and Preakness where he was overmatched was a foolish decision in my opinion.

[blackthroatedwind]

Sun King's performance had a lot to do with sending a closer inside of horses, and down on a dead fence, and Silver Wagon simply didn't show up.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sun King's performance had a lot to do with sending a closer inside of horses, and down on a dead fence, and Silver Wagon simply didn't show up.

Well considering Circular Quay has a history of finding excuses I have a tough time imagining he could have shown up on Met Mile Day and found a dream trip.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I'm not so sure he'd have needed a dream trip to be in the hunt with that field.