Jara or Leparoux

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

All I've said is that I believe Garcia has the potential to be the best out of the young crop of riders. Many trainers on the west coast are singing this young man's praises and deservedly so.

I agree that Leparoux is outstanding and Jara has been lights out in the big races. But to disregard Garcia as nothing more than a 3% winner if he moves to New York is absolutely absurd considering he finished 1st at Golden Gate defeating Russell Baze, 3rd at the Hollywood meet and is currently in 3rd at the Del Mar meet.

And now I am asking you to please not take it easy on me. I want your brilliance and knowledge of the game to shine through not just post count, but actual opinion. Trying to throw around board status is lame.

I wasn't throwing around board status yo....Fact is that Jara is riding against 10 horse field on a consistent basis and Garcia rides against 5 horses.

It is in my opinion that Garcia would even have problems getting mounts at Saratoga right now. he would be a top 12 jock at the belmont Meet, and would be a top three jock at the Aqueduct Meet. The Aqueduct meet is always dominated by bugs because everyone is at Gulfstream.

Also, if I am not mistaken, he beat Baze because Baze missed four weeks with a broken shoulder blade, and Baze almost came back and beat him.

Originally Posted by Scav

I wasn't throwing around board status yo....Fact is that Jara is riding against 10 horse field on a consistent basis and Garcia rides against 5 horses.

It is in my opinion that Garcia would even have problems getting mounts at Saratoga right now. he would be a top 12 jock at the belmont Meet, and would be a top three jock at the Aqueduct Meet. The Aqueduct meet is always dominated by bugs because everyone is at Gulfstream.

Also, if I am not mistaken, he beat Baze because Baze missed four weeks with a broken shoulder blade, and Baze almost came back and beat him.

Garcia had 79 more mounts than Baze and finished 15 wins ahead of him. Baze still had a slightly higher win % but Garcia put him away the last two weeks of the meet.

Regardless beating Baze on his home turf is a big accomplishment. Baze usually sleepwalks to the winner's circle up there.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Garcia had 79 more mounts than Baze and finished 15 wins ahead of him. Baze still had a slightly higher win % but Garcia put him away the last two weeks of the meet.

Regardless beating Baze on his home turf is a big accomplishment. Baze usually sleepwalks to the winner's circle up there.

agree....but the Frenchmen dominated Churchill, and dominated Keeneland, I am surprised at your opinion quite honestly. You sound intelligent so i am guessing you understand that the jockey colony is 10 times harder at KY and NY then in Northern Cal, and Southern Cal for that matter.

Aaron Gryder wins races at Southern Cal.

[Scav]

SUNNY HO...I think I read that he won 1 race in like three years.....almost as bad as Laviolette

Originally Posted by Scav

agree....but the Frenchmen dominated Churchill, and dominated Keeneland, I am surprised at your opinion quite honestly. You sound intelligent so i am guessing you understand that the jockey colony is 10 times harder at KY and NY then in Northern Cal, and Southern Cal for that matter.

Aaron Gryder wins races at Southern Cal.

I agree that the jockey colony on the NY/Gulfstream circuit is far better than Cali but I disagree with the KY circuit due to the retirement of Pat Day last year. Outside of Bejarano and the Frenchmen this is what you are left with..

Calvin H. Borel - Riding well as of late but if his next wife divorces him look for a drought until he finds another woman. :P

Randall Toups - When this kid loses his bug he'll do well to win races at River Downs. Absolutely horrible from the gate.

Mark Guidry - It's hard to knock a guy who just won the West Virginia Derby but on a daily basis this guy is about as stable as the price of a gallon of gas.

Robby Albarado - I truly believe Neil Howard's winning percentage would jump at least 5% if he found another rider.

Rene R. Douglas - I believe Romans already dropped him.

Shaun Bridgmohan - Even Bridgmohan won races in NY

Compare these guys to Victor, PVal, Nak, Solis, Garcia and even the up and coming Michael Baze and I would take the SoCal boys by a length.

[Scav]

Let me guess, you live in California...MICHAEL BAZE? oh man

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Yeah Martin garcia is a good jock, but I seriously doubt he could make the splash Leparoux has made. But, are you really comparing Sunny Ho to Pablo Fragoso? Granted, Fragoso's no Prado but come on. Sunny Ho, give me a break.

Yeah, you're right. I could replace Slogoso with Espinoza and/or Samyn and it still wouldn't equal the horrible Sunny Ho.

Originally Posted by Scav

Let me guess, you live in California...MICHAEL BAZE? oh man

Hey it's scary, I know. But the kid is winning races and looks like a completely different rider at Del Mar. He's bringing some decent prices in too. I'd have to pick him over Randall Toups.

[Scav]

Bridgmo is a great rider, Assmussen wouldn't have him first call if he wasn't. he is good with babies and rides the turf as good as anyone.

Albarado is frustrating, the only closers that I will play him on are the ones that can win going 5w, he is playable with speed or raters, as long as he is in the top flight, you have a chance.

This weekend, he rode Fort Prado, best horse in the race by far, like he was riding a 10k claimer, was 4w4w and ended up 3rd beaten 5 lengths

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Hey it's scary, I know. But the kid is winning races and looks like a completely different rider at Del Mar. He's bringing some decent prices in too. I'd have to pick him over Randall Toups.

I am not a fan of Toups at all so you can have this one, think he is a rider because he can get to 112, that is about it...

Originally Posted by Scav

Bridgmo is a great rider, Assmussen wouldn't have him first call if he wasn't. he is good with babies and rides the turf as good as anyone.

Albarado is frustrating, the only closers that I will play him on are the ones that can win going 5w, he is playable with speed or raters, as long as he is in the top flight, you have a chance.

This weekend, he rode Fort Prado, best horse in the race by far, like he was riding a 10k claimer, was 4w4w and ended up 3rd beaten 5 lengths

Yeah I saw that race. I can't recall Albarado having a serious injury before but sometimes he rides like he's almost had a near death experience on the track.

I agree with every one of Pillow Pants' posts.

The Kentucky cirquit has never been a hot bed of riders. It is a hot bed of bug boys. Kris Prather, Rafeal Bejarano and now Leparoux. The purses on the Kentucky cirquit just arent there. Now when Keeneland opens then all the great jocks come down. But right now the top colony is NY and then So Cal. No Cal is about on the level of Calder. Garcia is a finee jock but he wouldnt win 5 races at the Saratoga meet of he races 120 times.

[my miss storm cat]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Hey it's scary, I know. But the kid is winning races and looks like a completely different rider at Del Mar. He's bringing some decent prices in too. I'd have to pick him over Randall Toups.

Michael Baze has actually been pretty good to me.

I'd go with Julian (to answer the original question).

Speaking of jockeys, did Freddy Fong ever get that 3rd win this year?

[JJP]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

I agree that the jockey colony on the NY/Gulfstream circuit is far better than Cali but I disagree with the KY circuit due to the retirement of Pat Day last year. Outside of Bejarano and the Frenchmen this is what you are left with..

Calvin H. Borel - Riding well as of late but if his next wife divorces him look for a drought until he finds another woman. :P

Randall Toups - When this kid loses his bug he'll do well to win races at River Downs. Absolutely horrible from the gate.

Mark Guidry - It's hard to knock a guy who just won the West Virginia Derby but on a daily basis this guy is about as stable as the price of a gallon of gas.

Robby Albarado - I truly believe Neil Howard's winning percentage would jump at least 5% if he found another rider.

Rene R. Douglas - I believe Romans already dropped him.

Shaun Bridgmohan - Even Bridgmohan won races in NY

Compare these guys to Victor, PVal, Nak, Solis, Garcia and even the up and coming Michael Baze and I would take the SoCal boys by a length.

Don't forget Miguel Mena. He's very solid on the turf. I think he wins the Ellis title over McKee, Borel and Toups.

[Danzig]

JARA...no doubt in my mind at all.