CD renames La Troienne (And now renames the Louisville La Troienne!)

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by justindew

A ringing phone when he's in the bathtub.

I ignore the phone a lot more than you would think.

Now, if I'm in the tub, and the phone rings, and it's Byk, and he leaves one of those asinine three minute messages......then I'm plenty pissed.

The good news is, however, that the stereo is usually blaring.

[Danzig]

i heard the news while driving home; i agreed with steve that it was a dumb idea. explained to my son how it was similar to sir barton being taken away for barbaro, and that there are actually two barbaro stakes now. at any rate, i also think if they wanted to honor eight belles, fine-but not at the expense of a mare the likes of la troienne.
i'd have rather a track that saw eight belles at her best honor her with a race, rather than where she broke down.

and really, enough with the 'had she run in the oaks' crap. hindsight leads us nowhere.

[Cannon Shell]

Naming a race after a horse that brokedown and died in your biggest race without ever having done anything else particularly notable would seem to be an idiotic move. Now every year we can bring up those wonderful memories and explain to newcomers how Eight Belles snapped not one but two legs after getting beat in the Derby. I mean there is just SO much upside to doing this. Hell the connections aren't even locals that they are pandering to.

I know the names of stakes races is not that important in the grand scheme of things but IMO this is not a particularly smart move.

[Linny]

Honestly, I always thought that the La Troienne should be run at KEE because she was a great broodmare and I think of KEE as a "breeders track." Maybe KEE and the Lexington elite will adopt the name.

[joeydb]

I agree with Steve's comments yesterday about this, and the discarding of our history in this sport. Not a good idea.

But even more, I doubt the wisdom of renaming a stakes on Derby Day. Which is more likely: a reverent reflection on Eight Belles and acknowledgement of her legacy or just an "Oh my God...I remember that...this sport is so cruel to horses" type of impulse from the casual race watcher on TV?

I don't think it was a smart thing to link it to Derby Day, regardless of whether it was a renaming in place of La Troienne or if it were a new stakes. It's like renaming the Daytona 500 the "Dale Earnhardt 500". It's not a good idea to remind everyone of the tragedies that are unavoidable in the sport.

BTW I liked Earnhardt -- rest in peace, but you guys see the point I'm trying to make.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by joeydb

I agree with Steve's comments yesterday about this, and the discarding of our history in this sport. Not a good idea.

But even more, I doubt the wisdom of renaming a stakes on Derby Day. Which is more likely: a reverent reflection on Eight Belles and acknowledgement of her legacy or just an "Oh my God...I remember that...this sport is so cruel to horses" type of impulse from the casual race watcher on TV?

I don't think it was a smart thing to link it to Derby Day, regardless of whether it was a renaming in place of La Troienne or if it were a new stakes. It's like renaming the Daytona 500 the "Dale Earnhardt 500". It's not a good idea to remind everyone of the tragedies that are unavoidable in the sport.

BTW I liked Earnhardt -- rest in peace, but you guys see the point I'm trying to make.

I do see your point and agree 100%

[justindew]

How much time went by before the creation of The Go For Wand and The Ruffian?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by justindew

How much time went by before the creation of The Go For Wand and The Ruffian?

The difference is that those horses were major stakes winners on the NY circuit and Hall of fame horses who rightfully should have had races named for them. Eight Belles claim to fame is she broke her legs.

[slotdirt]

Eh, as I said yesterday, I'm still annoyed that they renamed the Sir Barton to the Barbaro. Sir Barton was part of one of the greatest match races in racing history and was posthumously recognized as the first winner of the Triple Crown. Why is Barbaro more worthy of stakes race than was Sir Barton?

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The difference is that those horses were major stakes winners on the NY circuit and Hall of fame horses who rightfully should have had races named for them. Eight Belles claim to fame is she broke her legs.

It seemed like part of your point (or someone else's point with which you agreed) was that it brings up the bad memories. Do you think when people watch the Ruffian and the Go For Wand they remember the horses' accomplishments or their deaths in front of huge TV audiences?

I agree that renaming of stakes races is kind of annoying, but I think criticism of CD for this move is criticism for the sake of criticism. And I am critical of CD often.

[Echo Farm]

Originally Posted by justindew

How much time went by before the creation of The Go For Wand and The Ruffian?

The Ruffian Handicap was created the year after Ruffian's death, 1976. It doesn't appear that it was a renamed race.

The Go For Wand, like the races for Eight Belles and Barbaro, was a renamed race. The Maskette , named for a HOF filly, was renamed For Go For Wand, 2 years after her death. At least Go For Wand had previously won the Maskette, which gives some connection.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Eh, as I said yesterday, I'm still annoyed that they renamed the Sir Barton to the Barbaro. Sir Barton was part of one of the greatest match races in racing history and was posthumously recognized as the first winner of the Triple Crown. Why is Barbaro more worthy of stakes race than was Sir Barton?

Sir Barton, his career and connections, is one of the horses mentioned quite frequently by historical writers when they discuss doped-up horses.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sir Barton, his career and connections, is one of the horses mentioned quite frequently by historical writers when they discuss doped-up horses.

I hope others find this as hilarious as I do.

[Echo Farm]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Eh, as I said yesterday, I'm still annoyed that they renamed the Sir Barton to the Barbaro. Sir Barton was part of one of the greatest match races in racing history and was posthumously recognized as the first winner of the Triple Crown. Why is Barbaro more worthy of stakes race than was Sir Barton?

Because he died and became a big story.

I wonder if Big Brown had run in the Breeders' Cup and broke down if there would have been a race changed in his honor. Probably not, even though he did more in his career than Barbaro. Big Brown's connections weren't all warm and fuzzy.

Can you imagine what the Barbaro Cult would do if they reinstated the Sir Barton Stakes?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by Riot

Sir Barton, his career and connections, is one of the horses mentioned quite frequently by historical writers when they discuss doped-up horses.

What? Commander Ross and 'Hard Guy' Bedwell are "mentioned quite frequently by historical writers when they discuss doped-up horses"? Where would that be?

[SniperSB23]

What I don't get is why they are naming the races after these horses at the tracks where they did nothing but die? If they wanted to name the Tropical Park Derby after Barbaro that would be fine, he actually won that race, why name one after him at Pimlico where he did nothing positive? I guess Eight Belles at least ran second in the Derby but she isn't getting the race renamed for that. The Fantasy or Honeybee would have been races more suited to renaming for Eight Belles. So, if they want to honor horses that broke down I'm fine for it, but not at the track they broke down. Rename it at a track they had success at.

[slotdirt]

I'd love to know what doping techniques were widely used and available in 1919.

[Echo Farm]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'd love to know what doping techniques were widely used and available in 1919.

recipes for hop were as plentiful as recipes for corn bread and coming by ingredients wasn’t hard. Caffeine could be boiled out of black coffee. Strychnine (also used by human athletes for speeding up muscle contractions) was a common rat poison. Even cocaine, heroin, and morphine were legal for anyone with a doctor’s prescription to buy from a drugstore, until prohibited by the Harrison Act of 1914—and could be bribed from pharmacists long after that. But using those mixtures effectively was a fine art. Prudent trainers experimented during morning workouts, discovering the right dope and dose for each horse.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by justindew

It seemed like part of your point (or someone else's point with which you agreed) was that it brings up the bad memories. Do you think when people watch the Ruffian and the Go For Wand they remember the horses' accomplishments or their deaths in front of huge TV audiences?

I agree that renaming of stakes races is kind of annoying, but I think criticism of CD for this move is criticism for the sake of criticism. And I am critical of CD often.

go for wand established quite a reputation on the track, and both figured to be hall of famers before losing their lives. the same can't be said about eight belles.
the sole reason eight belles got a race is that she died, that is not the only reason go for wand and ruffian got a stakes race named for them. there's really no comparison.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

What I don't get is why they are naming the races after these horses at the tracks where they did nothing but die? If they wanted to name the Tropical Park Derby after Barbaro that would be fine, he actually won that race, why name one after him at Pimlico where he did nothing positive? I guess Eight Belles at least ran second in the Derby but she isn't getting the race renamed for that. The Fantasy or Honeybee would have been races more suited to renaming for Eight Belles. So, if they want to honor horses that broke down I'm fine for it, but not at the track they broke down. Rename it at a track they had success at.

exactly, altho i don't think winning those races should vault her to the level of having a stakes named after her. nor should breaking down.