Swale....Winning Two Legs of The Triple Crown

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I can say it because I was around for all the good and great horses that have raced in the last 35 years. I spend my life trying to fairly, and accurately, judge racehorses' relative talents. Some are better than me....and many are worse.....but regardless of that I feel I am more than qualified to make these kinds of comparisons.

Take this for what it's worth, but if instead of being so defensive about any comment that doesn't imply that Big Brown is the second coming of Hindoo, you took the time to really research some top horses from the past ( buy the book Champions from DRF ) you might be surprised at what you discover.

Just because I am trying to defend Big Brown's record in 2008 and argue against some of the challenges against I feel I don't understand, I in know way think he is the best ever. Until i see him lose a race, I see no reason to not support his accomplishments this year.

I appreciate the book suggestion.

[Betsy]

Woody was very high on Swale - if I recall, it really broke him up to lose him. Earlier in his career, he was in the long shadow of Devil's Bag and he never really overcame his inconsistency (from what I can tell - I only remember his death, not his races). Of course, maturity might have taken care of that. It was a devastating blow to Claiborne.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Betsy

Woody was very high on Swale - if I recall, it really broke him up to lose him. Earlier in his career, he was in the long shadow of Devil's Bag and he never really overcame his inconsistency (from what I can tell - I only remember his death, not his races). Of course, maturity might have taken care of that. It was a devastating blow to Claiborne.

yeah, he was high on him. swale was very inconsistent, seemed every time he ran a good race, he'd follow it with a bit of a clunker. but he actually only finished off the board one time, in the preakness. but when he was on, he was on. and of course claiborne was very upset about losing him, he was the farms first ever derby winner. he's buried there in the same cemetary with secretariat and nasrullah.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Thank you! When I read this, I kind of wish I had been around in the 70s. There were three TC winners? A 23 horse field in the Preakness? Just wish I could have seen what it was like back then compared to now.

I'm confused.....you didn't know there were three TC winners in the 1970s?

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Just because I am trying to defend Big Brown's record in 2008 and argue against some of the challenges against I feel I don't understand, I in know way think he is the best ever. Until i see him lose a race, I see no reason to not support his accomplishments this year.

I appreciate the book suggestion.

I guess you slept through June 7th.

[RolloTomasi]

Another Derby-Belmont winner was Chateaugay in '70. Not sure what he did in the Preakness.

Tabasco Cat and Point Given also won the Preakness and Belmont.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I'm confused.....you didn't know there were three TC winners in the 1970s?

i wonder if he knows how many there were in the 60's and 80's?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Another Derby-Belmont winner was Chateaugay in '70. Not sure what he did in the Preakness.

Tabasco Cat and Point Given also won the Preakness and Belmont.

he was second.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I guess you slept through June 7th.

Wasn't certain, but could have looked it up. Off hand I counted Secretariat, Seattle Slew and Affirmed.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I guess you slept through June 7th.

I was very much awake. He was pulled up, not out ran. He still lost the race but I haven't seen him lose yet where he entered the stretch.

I'm sure you want to slay me for that comment too.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Another Derby-Belmont winner was Chateaugay in '70. Not sure what he did in the Preakness.

Tabasco Cat and Point Given also won the Preakness and Belmont.

For some reason, I think Tabasco Cat is my all-time favorite horse name.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

I was very much awake. He was pulled up, not out ran. He still lost the race but I haven't seen him lose yet where he entered the stretch.

I'm sure you want to slay me for that comment too.

you sound like les miles when he said the bayou bengals never lost in regulation last year.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Danzig

you sound like les miles when he said the bayou bengals never lost in regulation last year.

Well you even said yourself that you would have liked to see what he could have done if Kent just went through with the race and didn't ease him up.

I don't suggest undefeated, just undefeated in regulation

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Well you even said yourself that you would have liked to see what he could have done if Kent just went through with the race and didn't ease him up.

I don't suggest undefeated, just undefeated in regulation

He may have been a real good 7th...

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Well you even said yourself that you would have liked to see what he could have done if Kent just went through with the race and didn't ease him up.

I don't suggest undefeated, just undefeated in regulation

he'd have been lucky to hit the board, but he wouldn't have been a dnf. kents 'ride' that day was chickensh!t. reminded me of mike smith when he said he thought giacomom entrapped, and he did no such thing. there's not always an excuse, sometimes they just aren't where they need to be to win.

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He may have been a real good 7th...

Right before the stretch he was right there just like always.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Right before the stretch he was right there just like always.

yeah he looked great on the turn...

Maybe Desormeaux had a big bet on Da Tara???

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Danzig

he'd have been lucky to hit the board, but he wouldn't have been a dnf. kents 'ride' that day was chickensh!t. reminded me of mike smith when he said he thought giacomom entrapped, and he did no such thing. there's not always an excuse, sometimes they just aren't where they need to be to win.

I agree. There have been two times that I've watched a race (during my brief history of following races), where I had a bad feeling about my favorite before the starting gate opened.

1. When Barbaro broke through the gate at the Preakness before the official start. Once that happened, you could just sense it wasn't the same Barbaro from two weeks prior. Not to go off topic but it does prompt another question. Has there been any discussion that Barbaro's false start could have led to breaking down? I'm guessing this is a rare occurance?

2. Obviously less tragic, but when Big Brown was coming out from the stable and through the crowd, both Kent D, and Michelle Nivens were putting their finger up to their mouth in hopes the crowd would not be noisy to further rattle Big Brown. His head was was all over the place.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

I agree. There have been two times that I've watched a race (during my brief history of following races), where I had a bad feeling about my favorite before the starting gate opened.

1. When Barbaro broke through the gate at the Preakness before the official start. Once that happened, you could just sense it wasn't the same Barbaro from two weeks prior. Not to go off topic but it does prompt another question. Has there been any discussion that Barbaro's false start could have led to breaking down? I'm guessing this is a rare occurance?

2. Obviously less tragic, but when Big Brown was coming out from the stable and through the crowd, both Kent D, and Michelle Nivens were putting their finger up to their mouth in hopes the crowd would not be noisy to further rattle Big Brown. His head was was all over the place.

A trend?

[RollerDoc]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

A trend?

Sorry I didn't understand what you were asking from my post?