Angara Rises To Superstar Status

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I can't even tell you how many times I will be looking at the Racing Form and see a horse who had to take a long vacation because his trainer rushed him. For example, you will often see a horse that wins first-time out and then the trainer runs him back in 17 days or something like that. You will often see horses take a year off after the trainer does something like that. Horses are more susceptible to injury if you run them when they are tired. In addition, the horses rarely win when they come back so soon. On the other hand, if a trainer gives a horse 26-30 days after winning first-time out, then the horse has a much better chance of winning their 2nd race. Not only that, they have a much better chance of staying sound. That was one of the first things I noticed when I first started going to the track back in the early 1980s. I would see a horse break his maiden very impressively first-time out and these horses would rarely come back and win if they weren't given at least 25 days to recover. Even really good horses would usually get beat if they were brought back in 17 days.

I've noticed the same thing time and again. You often see a first out winner come back in 2-3 weeks and they usually regress. I like to see 4-5 weeks and a couple of works before the next race.

[sumitas]

i have noticed that Angara is by Alzao. Alzao is the broodmare sire of Deep Impact. Alzao is retired from stud and his sons at stud are all overseas. He is a son of Lyphard.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I've noticed the same thing time and again. You often see a first out winner come back in 2-3 weeks and they usually regress. I like to see 4-5 weeks and a couple of works before the next race.

Yes, and this also true of horses who win off of long layoffs. That first race back usually tires them out a bit and they usualy need some time to recover. The exception to this rule would be if a horse wins under an absolute strangle-hold and isn't even close to being all out, like the way Bernardini won yesterday. That race wasn't much more than a workout. In a situation like that, it's alright if the horse comes back a little quicker.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by sumitas

i have noticed that Angara is by Alzao. Alzao is the broodmare sire of Deep Impact. Alzao is retired from stud and his sons at stud are all overseas. He is a son of Lyphard.

Angara is from the Wildenstein breeding operation and raced under the Wildenstein name until Martin Schwartz bought her and sent her to Biancone.

I think she is from some sort of "A" family that is famous or something but I can't find anything on it.

Anyone know what I am talking about?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

Angara is from the Wildenstein breeding operation and raced under the Wildenstein name until Martin Schwartz bought her and sent her to Biancone.

I think she is from some sort of "A" family that is famous or something but I can't find anything on it.

Anyone know what I am talking about?

I assume you know that Schwartz doesn't own her any more. Sangster bought her and that is why she was moved to Bill Mott's barn.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I assume you know that Schwartz doesn't own her any more. Sangster bought her and that is why she was moved to Bill Mott's barn.

Yes sir, I surely did.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Hey Richi, how did that purchase go down.

I seem to remember that they ran Angara through at Keeneland and she didn't reach her reserve.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

Hey Richi, how did that purchase go down.

I seem to remember that they ran Angara through at Keeneland and she didn't reach her reserve.

I'm not sure exactly how they bought her. I think I read about it several months ago but I can't remeber the details. You may be right about her going through the sale. That sounds familiar.

[sumitas]

Angara's 5 previous dam's names all begin with an "A"

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I'm not sure why they don't run more. But I don't think it is because they couldn't.

I respect your opinion that Angara's campaign might have taken its toll on her.

But I felt that some races just didn't "set up" for her and/or she cycled out of form last year. The thought of Biancone "running her into the ground" never entered my mind and I wondered why you stated that unless you knew she was broken down after last year or something.

I would prefer that horses run every 14-21 days in a campaign and then get a lay up. It seems to me that this is impossible due to our year long racing season in America, and maybe that is why trainers space the races out so much.

Another opinion I have on the long layoffs between races with "good horses" is the fear of losing due to an impact later in a career at stud.

Maybe the owners of really nice horses don't want them having blips on their record if they can help it now due to the current breeding market.

I could be way off on that though, let me know your opinion of this one Richi..

If you had a really nice colt who had won 3 out of 3 and looked to be pretty tough, would you fret about him losing a race/races due to the impact on his stud fee at a later date.

Let me clarify that I wasn't trying to offend you with my Angara statements, it just never entered my mind that Biancone was abusing her last year and I didn't understand why you thought that. I think he was just maximizing her profit margin with all of the checks she picked up, and I don't think she will earn as much this year..even with the G1 yesterday.

A perfect example of a guy who tries to run his horses every 2-3 weeks is Lukas. He has great horses yet his winning percentage is very low. His win percentage is 9%. One of the main reasons his winning percentage is so low is because he runs his horses so often. Ron Ellis is exactly the opposite. Most of his horses only run about 5 times a year. He won at a 29% clip last year. He would be the first to tell you that one of the main reasons his winning percentage is so high is because he gives his horses plenty of time between races. Ellis probably has less than half the starts per horse than Lukas.

It's pretty much the same for guys like Frankel and Pletcher. Their win percentage is always around 25%. Their win percentage would drop like crazy if they started running their horses every 2-3 weeks. Not only that, their horses wouldn't last. Frankel has spoken many times publicly about how horses need plenty of rest between races and that if you wheel them back in 3 weeks, they will often times give a sub-par effort.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

A perfect example of a guy who tries to run his horses every 2-3 weeks is Lukas. He has great horses yet his winning percentage is very low. His win percentage is 9%. One of the main reasons his winning percentage is so low is because he runs his horses so often. Ron Ellis is exactly the opposite. Most of his horses only run about 5 times a year. He won at a 29% clip last year. He would be the first to tell you that one of the main reasons his winning percentage is so high is because he gives his horses plenty of time between races. Ellis probably has less than half the starts per horse than Lukas.

It's pretty much the same for guys like Frankel and Pletcher. Their win percentage is always around 25%. Their win percentage would drop like crazy if they started running their horses every 2-3 weeks. Not only that, their horses wouldn't last. Frankel has spoken many times publicly about how horses need plenty of rest between races and that if you wheel them back in 3 weeks, they will often times give a sub-par effort.

I understand where you are coming from Richi, but I think Lukas might have more problems than running them too often.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

I understand where you are coming from Richi, but I think Lukas might have more problems than running them too often.

You are right about that. Lukas is not nearly as good of a trainer as any of those guys I mentioned. He's not nearly as good of a horseman as any of those guys either. But even if he was as good a trainer as those guys, his win percenatge would still be much lower than theirs simply because he runs his horses so often.
It's not like I'm saying anything controversial. If you asked any of these guys, they would tell you the same thing. If you asked Frankel what would happen to his win percenatge if he started running his horses every 2-3 weeks, he would tell you that his win percenatge would go way down.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You are right about that. Lukas is not nearly as good of a trainer as any of those guys I mentioned. He's not nearly as good of a horseman as any of those guys either. But even if he was as good a trainer as those guys, his win percenatge would still be much lower than theirs simply because he runs his horses so often.
It's not like I'm saying anything controversial. If you asked any of these guys, they would tell you the same thing. If you asked Frankel what would happen to his win percenatge if he started running his horses every 2-3 weeks, he would tell you that his win percenatge would go way down.

Haha, I know Richi. You and I have had several knock-down dragouts about Lukas and I concede this one to you. In my opinion, he should just quit if he has enough money to live on.

I wouldn't think he could deal with not being on top....

But who knows what makes a man tick?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by moodwalker

Haha, I know Richi. You and I have had several knock-down dragouts about Lukas and I concede this one to you. In my opinion, he should just quit if he has enough money to live on.

I wouldn't think he could deal with not being on top....

But who knows what makes a man tick?

Lukas is a workaholic. He's very competitive and very driven. I couldn't really see him retiring.