Horse Racing Dichotomy

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by Split Rock

We're going to agree to disagree here. Do you think the drug issue in baseball would be investigated with the same ferver had the smug Barry Bonds not broken a hallowed record? Forever, there will be an asterisk next to that record, if it is even mentioned at all going forward.

I not only think a Kentucky Derby winner being DQ'd is what the sport needs, I would go a step further and say a Triple Crown winner being DQ'd is what the sport needs. National attention to this very serious issue is the only way it will be rectified.

If Dutrow is on the up and up with Big Brown (which, to me, seems virtually impossible, especially based on what I saw today) then I would be the first to say he deserves it and appreciate the accomplishments. However, the Mullins', Lake's, Ness's, Dutrow's, Pletcher's, Assmussen's have absolutely ruined the sport for me and reduced it to a simple gambling venture.

I get where you're going with it, I just think that there has got to be a more productive, less harmful way for us to make drug reform in racing -- without tarnishing one of the finest recent Derby performances and without forever marking the nation's biggest race with such a terrible stain.

I admire your zeal, and I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't really think you've thought this through. I don't think you're being realistic about the outcomes. Whatever incremental positive gains could possibly be made by having to make an example out of Dutrow if this happened would be overshadowed 10,000x by all the negative press and how terribly it would turn so many people off from the game.

Agree to disagree, fine, I just wish you'd think it through more.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by brianwspencer

I'm no fan of Dutrow, and I'm as upset as anyone about Eight Belles today...

But you do realize that your plea to the Almighty would be just about the single worst thing that could happen to racing? The very short lived opportunity everyone would have to feel all good about themselves honoring Eight Belles after she passed would be completely overshadowed by the raging, swollen, irreparable black eye on the sport.

I hope you rethink your prayers on this one. Dutrow is a d-bag, for sure. And Brown is the real thing.

But if he came back positive, the very short-term benefits and righteous indignation towards Dutrow would feel great, sure, then three days later you'd realize what a shitstorm it had just caused in the world of anyone connected to racing.

I think you're coloring this with way too much emotion, and not enough hard thinking about what your dream scenario would really mean.

Begging for the Kentucky Derby winner to test positive for drugs is not even within my realm of thinking, or feeling, or emotion even after what happened today. I honestly don't understand how any racing fan or horseplayer could wish for that to happen.

perhaps tho it would finally provoke the ones who can do something about the misuse of drugs to finally accept there is a problem and do far more about it then what has been done in the past. because right now, the drug rules are far from consistent from one jurisdiction to another, there is no lasting consequence for cheating, and for the most part, it's a slap on the wrist, don't do it again, wink wink atmosphere. and now the stench of cheating, inc has reached the highest levels of the sport. but we're supposed to hope that business can run as usual, by hoping that nothing happens on racings bigger days?
to be honest, i'm surprised that nothing has been found since dancer's image. luck, or turning a blind eye?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Big Brown is excellent, but at this point he is just winning. I looked at the Beyers and they gave them pretty formful numbers....109 for big Brown...102 for Eight Belles, and I guess 97 for Denis of Cork. So for the top 3, those are pretty much what they've run in their prior career best or only minimal improvement in the case of the top 2. So a top 3 year old running 105-110 Beyers is really nothing extraordinary at all and pretty typical of what we see in Derby preps and Derby's of winners. Big Brown is certainly very nice, but I haven't seen anything separating him from other recent Derby winners. And in that vain, I see nothing at all guaranteeing a triple crown. Absolutely nothing.

You are correct, but I would add that the wide trip would probably make this the equivalent of perhaps a 114 Beyer if comparing it to Street Sense's run last year.

I agree, too, that there is no guarantee of a triple crown. That's more or less my point. If he DOES prevail in the next two, he would hardly be the bum of the TC winners.

Do you think we've seen his best in his 4th start? He's an April foal, and while it's tempting to pause for an April foals' joke, I'll note this instead: There was just 1 other April foal in the race and 2 May foals. The other 16 horses were older. He's catching up.

--Dunbar

[SCUDSBROTHER]

He's never run on dirt that wasn't lightning fast.Wait until the Belmont,and we will see how good he is.

[Riot]

I not only think a Kentucky Derby winner being DQ'd is what the sport needs, I would go a step further and say a Triple Crown winner being DQ'd is what the sport needs. National attention to this very serious issue is the only way it will be rectified.

We've already had a Kentucky Derby winner DQ'd for drug useage.

[Rileyoriley]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

I'll be crucified for this post I'm sure, but he looked 'off' in the right front walking to the winner's circle. A horse that has hoof problems as this one has most likely will feel the aftermath of running a 10 panel race.

A friend and I were just saying the same thing, head bobbing too. I re-watched my tape a couple times to be sure I saw it.