Praise For Del Mar

[pmayjr]

Guys,

I wasn't able to join y'all in 'Toga a few weeks back, becauce I already had a trip planned with a friend to go to Cali this past weekend. We got down to Del Mat yesterday (Sun), and it was really cool. The place is as beautiful as it looks, and for how many people they can hold (25k I think?), the places seems intimate to me. I loved it. We were just there for a few races, and I dumped some $$$, but it was a good time.

Why do I get the feeling the DT summer get-together will be there instead of 'Toga next year, when I wanna go to 'Toga lol?

[2Hot4TV]

How was the weather in mid August? Hot and Humid like Saratoga?

[The Bid]

They vanned another one off in the first today. Never unsaddled, vanned off in distress after pulling up bad.

[ateamstupid]

24-1 entry runs 1-2 in the third at Del Mar today. If this is the future of racing, count me out. I'd rather bet on greyhounds than any of this garbage.

[Riot]

Well, the 6-7-8 was chalkfest supreme, with a P3 that paid about $26. For the most part, I think the bettors have it figured out.

[pmayjr]

Originally Posted by 2Hot4TV

How was the weather in mid August? Hot and Humid like Saratoga?

Not at all... right on the ocean, nice breeze, low 80s. What a lot of people don't realize about Los Angeles and San Diego, is along the coast and quite a few miles inward, it's actually not that hot there.

Where it gets hot is the further east you get, the further you get towards the desert. I remember when I went to the Coachella music festival (http://www.coachella.com) just outside of Palm Springs (which is in the desert) in late April 2006, it was over 100 degrees everyday. When I drove back to L.A. to catch my flight home, I stopped at Hermosa Beach at about 5PM. It was so friggin cold! Like literally 50 degrees cooler at the beach than it was in the desert. So that's what makes Del Mar so nice this time O' year. It never gets super hot. That and is it possible for Cali to ever get humid? It's mainly dry heat there right?

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by pmayjr

Not at all... right on the ocean, nice breeze, low 80s. What a lot of people don't realize about Los Angeles and San Diego, is along the coast and quite a few miles inward, it's actually not that hot there.

Where it gets hot is the further east you get, the further you get towards the desert. I remember when I went to the Coachella music festival (http://www.coachella.com) just outside of Palm Springs (which is in the desert) in late April 2006, it was over 100 degrees everyday. When I drove back to L.A. to catch my flight home, I stopped at Hermosa Beach at about 5PM. It was so friggin cold! Like literally 50 degrees cooler at the beach than it was in the desert. So that's what makes Del Mar so nice this time O' year. It never gets super hot. That and is it possible for Cali to ever get humid? It's mainly dry heat there right?

We can get some tropical storms to bring the humitity up, but it never gets like the midwest and east coast. You can't beat living next to the Pacific Ocean for the weather.

[Unstable]

Originally Posted by The Bid

They vanned another one off in the first today. Never unsaddled, vanned off in distress after pulling up bad.

It's funny, but the trouble line on that race only says, "dropped back in the stretch and gave way." No mention of being vanned off in distress. Did you see the 7th race? The trouble line on Americanrevolution says, "gave way and was eased late." I know the DRF has listed horses being vanned off before. Are these horses being included in the statistics on the safety of Polytrack? Or are they only keeping track of horses that break down and are euthanized right there on the track?

For the record, I live in Southern California. I don't mind the All Weather tracks as long as they play fair. I do not like the Polytrack for the reason that it doesn't. I would have preferred that all the tracks in California had switched to the same surface. I'm betting very light at Del Mar, if at all, until they finish the experiment the first meet with the new surface is. Same thing with the upcoming meet at Golden Gate with the Tapeta surface. Who knows how that will play? Maybe the DTers in England? Good luck to them. I did okay at Hollywood Park this year (better than I usually do) and will bet Santa Anita with more confidence, due to the fact that both tracks have the Cushion Track surface.

[The Bid]

You are looking at the wrong race, race number 1.

http://www.equibase.com/static/chart...081307USA1.pdf

[Scav]

The people that are complaining about the surface just need to chill out as eventually it will play fair. I agree with The Bid in that it has changed the game and that this is far from dirt racing but it takes time for the track sup to understand the track. Arlington has really turned into a delight to play from a poly perspective. All types have been winning (the stats in the program will tell you closers are winning at the best clip but that is early meet heavy when they were figuring out the track).

In all honesty, I think the move to poly helps the younger generation of horse players, like myself, because we do not have the 20 years of experience on one surface built up in the brain and we are somewhat allowed to even the playing field a little.

But on the other side of the coin, I could care less what they are racing on as long as I can find a winner

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Your second paragraph confuses me. Could you explain it further.

Some people have been playing tracks like Del Mar and Hollywood Park for 20 years, they have all these built up angles and experiences with wagering. Perfect example is that Ata Dynaformer horse with EG Burnison or wahtever his name is. I had NO IDEA who tha person was, but for 20 years he has been sneaking horses in and someone caught on to it. The fact that the surface has changed, it has opened it up for younger people to create their own angles from the start, we are essentially getting new tracks thus new angles.

You don't beat this game right away, it takes experience, time and a beating. Right now, everyone is back to square one with polytrack

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I think you are thinking way too much into it, as if there is anything the Keeneland and Del Mar poly have shown is that it really is almost impossible to see a pattern. Trainer's sneaking in horses has nothing to do with poly but I see what you are saying. I just think the poly, with it's unpredictability will be nearly impossible to get angles from.

Your way off. I have scored on a plethra of horses with poly form that have gone to a dirt track and ran like crap and then all of a sudden they come back to poly and score at 10/1. There are plenty of patterns/angles out there, especially when you follow a poly surface like I do with Arlington.

The poly/dirt angle is going to be the strongest pattern out there, much stronger then poly/turf angle

[Scav]

More so, one of the strongest plays this year has been horses that had poly success at Keeneland going to Churchill, they were strong plays against and a majority of them didn't run as 'solid' as they did at Keeneland, this led to some super pick three/pick four scores at Churchill

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I forgot who I was talking to. Thanks for the lesson.

Let me ask you this, how much have you played tracks with poly, on a consistent basis?

[ArlJim78]

The great thing about poly is the amount of misinformation going around and that people tend to react irrationally when faced with this new variable.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Not very consistent. I played both Keeneland meets and dabble at Cali. I just thought your "angles" are basic handicapping, no offense.

They might be basic, but the public sure hasn't picked up on them yet.

How can you argue about something that you haven't had alot of experience with?

Sometimes the simplest angles go over looked, which happens on all surfaces, but as aj said, people overreact to this stuff, all they have to do is change up their capping a little

[miraja2]

I think the addition of a third surface has to help good handicappers in the long run. Being able to track the patterns of dirt-to-poly and poly-to-dirt performances is crucial.
At Arlington, for example, there have been a number of horses coming in off nice performances at CD or Hawthorne that have been seriously overbet (especially on Saturdays when there is a lot of dead money at the track) because the switch to poly wasn't given enough consideration. I also think the "turf horses love poly" angle has been seriously overblown, so horses with good turf form are often severely overbet in their poly debuts.
So like I said, I think the addition of a third surface helps the good handicappers. That, of course, is why I hate it. I need something to help us crappy handicappers.

I find it very hard to believe that synth. is totally random surface.
One of the main problems is the belief that fast horses are better. Or horses with a high cruising rate are better. It might just be this surface plays to endurance in a very diff. way that grass. And the horses you think or thought were crap (for whatever reason; its usually price or level run at on dirt), are actually tough animals in a war of attrition on a tiring surface. Or maybe they have a hoovestrike and stride that works well on the surface under certain conditions.

There has to be a way to cap it. It may be People are going to have to change notions and old habits drastically. I just have a hard time labeling a horse as crap when he/she has just beaten 9 other horses just because I lost a bet.

Hell maybe its just a matter of a horse relaxing and not battling the surface. Especially if they have been bred for, and trained on dirt.

I am glad it is here. And I am glad it adds some confusion. Because that leaves openings for folks willing to try and figure it out. I have seen many more horses in each race on the stuff, and larger payouts. I dont see what is wrong with that unless you are stuck on old methods that dont work anymore.

Now after stating all this betting stuff. I would much rather watch a horse run on dirt because its beautiful the way the horses can stride out on it. It really makes the horses look like the great athletes they are.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I find it very hard to believe that synth. is totally random surface.

it isn't anywhere close to random. i would like to know how people are coming to this conclusion. where is the data? frankly I find it less random than dirt.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

it isn't anywhere close to random. i would like to know how people are coming to this conclusion. where is the data? frankly I find it less random than dirt.

I will admit syn. is more confusing for me, but I really have not had time to look at it closely. So I will defer to the more resourceful, flexible, everyday cappers.