Overrated Jockeys

Originally Posted by Sweetness

I've watched the replay a few times, and I just disagree. What would you have liked Gomez to do? Harry Vega's horse outsprinted him, and he sat patiently there. As they turned for home, the hole opened, then it shut, and finally opened again. First off, Songster is very talented and no one was going to beat him that day. I think it was more of Harry Vega not letting Gomez through, as he was trying to salvage second, then anything Gomez did wrong. Did you read Baffert's post race comments, he said something to the extent of Vega costing TMB the race and him having some connection to Prado.

I agree, TMB was a vistim of the draw...anytime you draw down on the inside you run the risk of getting a bad trip..its just physics...there is nowhere to go on the inside and you can only go outside...the jockey has a decision to make early on in the race whether to Go or settle back and come around - or in TMB and Gomez's case keep in striking range and hope for an opening to present itself....I can't see much wrong with that ride...it was a bad trip and there was probably little he could do about it...think about it..if he pushes the button early to get into the clear he compromises his horse for the stretchrun, and if he takes way back to get into the clear then he loses that mush more ground to make up in the late stages of the race....he did the right thing IMO and just got unlucky...this is a sport that is a large majority of luck, you know...

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I agree, TMB was a vistim of the draw.....

I couldn't agree more and that was the primary reason I was happy to play against that horse.

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I agree, TMB was a vistim of the draw...anytime you draw down on the inside you run the risk of getting a bad trip..its just physics...there is nowhere to go on the inside and you can only go outside...the jockey has a decision to make early on in the race whether to Go or settle back and come around - or in TMB and Gomez's case keep in striking range and hope for an opening to present itself....I can't see much wrong with that ride...it was a bad trip and there was probably little he could do about it...think about it..if he pushes the button early to get into the clear he compromises his horse for the stretchrun, and if he takes way back to get into the clear then he loses that mush more ground to make up in the late stages of the race....he did the right thing IMO and just got unlucky...this is a sport that is a large majority of luck, you know...

Well said, the rail is always a tough draw.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

I agree, TMB was a vistim of the draw...anytime you draw down on the inside you run the risk of getting a bad trip..its just physics...there is nowhere to go on the inside and you can only go outside...the jockey has a decision to make early on in the race whether to Go or settle back and come around - or in TMB and Gomez's case keep in striking range and hope for an opening to present itself....I can't see much wrong with that ride...it was a bad trip and there was probably little he could do about it...think about it..if he pushes the button early to get into the clear he compromises his horse for the stretchrun, and if he takes way back to get into the clear then he loses that mush more ground to make up in the late stages of the race....he did the right thing IMO and just got unlucky...this is a sport that is a large majority of luck, you know...

I agree with you. That was hardly a terrible ride. He was mainly a victim of circumstance.

[DiscreetCat=Monster]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Gomez' awful ride on TM BLING stands out like a retarded kid at a Spelling Bee.Anytime somebody thinks Gomez is a great rider,go to the Belmont web site.Click video,and find the race on the undercard of the Belmont this year.You can not be dumber than that.Sometimes the guy is smart as a potted plant.Sure ,he gives some good rides,but he ain't gunna make it up to ya when he blows a chalk ride.Oh yes,he will blow some more rides on chalk.Why? Because when he is a target,he is easy to get into trouble.Not in the top 50% of the smartest guys out there.Prado simply makes an a$$ out of him,and that will probably continue to be the case.When he costs you a bunch of dough you'll see.

Do you even follow the DRF or racing in general? Baffert said before they went to NY from Cali that they didn't want to run considering he drew the 1 hole. And that was before the race. then in retrospect he was right they all broke well but gomez cannot afford to send going that far and then let songster sit in 3rd and run by them when they turn for home. He was stuck and by the sounds of the interviews by baffert after the race he knew that was gonna happen. The horse never has won from the inside. It is just asking too much for a 3yo to go balls out for 7 F. You Sound like you need to read the form a little more before you pin a bad ride on someone.

OF COURSE I SHOULDN'T HALF TO TELL YOU THIS IF YOUR A TRUE HANDICAPER. I SINGLED SONGSTER on my Pick 4 doesn't take a genious to figure that out!!!

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by LOSE=GLUE

Do you even follow the DRF or racing in general? Baffert said before they went to NY from Cali that they didn't want to run considering he drew the 1 hole. And that was before the race. then in retrospect he was right they all broke well but gomez cannot afford to send going that far and then let songster sit in 3rd and run by them when they turn for home. He was stuck and by the sounds of the interviews by baffert after the race he knew that was gonna happen. The horse never has won from the inside. It is just asking too much for a 3yo to go balls out for 7 F. You Sound like you need to read the form a little more before you pin a bad ride on someone.

OF COURSE I SHOULDN'T HALF TO TELL YOU THIS IF YOUR A TRUE HANDICAPER. I SINGLED SONGSTER on my Pick 4 doesn't take a genious to figure that out!!!

Another "one-week-later" guru. Tell us, please, if Baffert didn't want to run given the draw, pray tell why he ran? He didn't send, he didn't take back. He just sat there waiting to lose. Gomez waited too long or the horse wasn't good enough. And, yes, of course, WAY mad props to you for singling that 2/1 in that small field. Oooooo, so very daring. Do let us know when your 900 number is up and running.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by LOSE=GLUE

Do you even follow the DRF or racing in general? Baffert said before they went to NY from Cali that they didn't want to run considering he drew the 1 hole. And that was before the race. then in retrospect he was right they all broke well but gomez cannot afford to send going that far and then let songster sit in 3rd and run by them when they turn for home. He was stuck and by the sounds of the interviews by baffert after the race he knew that was gonna happen. The horse never has won from the inside. It is just asking too much for a 3yo to go balls out for 7 F. You Sound like you need to read the form a little more before you pin a bad ride on someone.

OF COURSE I SHOULDN'T HALF TO TELL YOU THIS IF YOUR A TRUE HANDICAPER. I SINGLED SONGSTER on my Pick 4 doesn't take a genious to figure that out!!!

Yeah,and people blew good money yesterday trying to beat Behaving Badly yesterday too(cuz she had the 1 hole.)Fact is that Gomez can ride just fine until you need him to do something for you.If you bet against the best horse(in hopes they will get into trouble,)you'll usually lose.Everybody is gunna use the 1 hole to justify Gomez being stuck there in a paralyzed animal mode.It wasn't an ideal post,but the horse is 5 lengths the best horse.The horse never is given anywhere to run,and still isn't beaten that badly.Think about it.He puts the horse in no mans land,and gee whiz Gomer Pyle..They seal him in (as he seemed to be asked to be,)and then the excuse is that he got sealed in? I don't understand the idea of getting sealed in,and then thinking he will get out(as the chalk.)Again,I think he rides horses without recognizing that chalk will be a target.He rode Bling asif he was 5-1,and would be able to eventually get out of that spot.Well,even money horses in New York aren't getting out of that spot.5-1 shots? Probably will.There is a difference,and he just is taking longer than necessary to learn this.Guy is mentally in the lower 10%,and physically is in the top 10%.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Yeah,and people blew good money yesterday trying to beat Behaving Badly yesterday too(cuz she had the 1 hole.)Fact is that Gomez can ride just fine until you need him to do something for you.If you bet against the best horse(in hopes they will get into trouble,)you'll usually lose.Everybody is gunna use the 1 hole to justify Gomez being stuck there in a paralyzed animal mode.It wasn't an ideal post,but the horse is 5 lengths the best horse.The horse never is given anywhere to run,and still isn't beaten that badly.Think about it.He puts the horse in no mans land,and gee whiz Gomer Pyle..They seal him in (as he seemed to be asked to be,)and then the excuse is that he got sealed in? I don't understand the idea of getting sealed in,and then thinking he will get out(as the chalk.)Again,I think he rides horses without recognizing that chalk will be a target.He rode Bling asif he was 5-1,and would be able to eventually get out of that spot.Well,even money horses in New York aren't getting out of that spot.5-1 shots? Probably will.There is a difference,and he just is taking longer than necessary to learn this.Guy is mentally in the lower 10%,and physically is in the top 10%.

LOL. Put f'ing Kobayashi on the horse and he wins. Gomez either waited to lose there or wasn't good enough. I'm sure LoseGlue knows that. He shouldn't "half" to tell us .

[SCUDSBROTHER]

According to you clowns,Bling should have been 3-1(because Baffert didn't like the 1 hole.)Gee,seems like people thought the horse was good enough to overcome it.Real easy,after the fact,to say a horse was a bad favorite,or a play against,or that the post made him unplayable.This is Gander style.

Originally Posted by LOSE=GLUE

Do you even follow the DRF or racing in general? Baffert said before they went to NY from Cali that they didn't want to run considering he drew the 1 hole. And that was before the race. then in retrospect he was right they all broke well but gomez cannot afford to send going that far and then let songster sit in 3rd and run by them when they turn for home. He was stuck and by the sounds of the interviews by baffert after the race he knew that was gonna happen. The horse never has won from the inside. It is just asking too much for a 3yo to go balls out for 7 F. You Sound like you need to read the form a little more before you pin a bad ride on someone.

OF COURSE I SHOULDN'T HALF TO TELL YOU THIS IF YOUR A TRUE HANDICAPER. I SINGLED SONGSTER on my Pick 4 doesn't take a genious to figure that out!!!

Well said, and I'm with you on Songster, he was a much better single than TMB. SCUDS is just sour because his handicapping was poor, not the ride.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Sweetness

Well said, and I'm with you on Songster, he was a much better single than TMB. SCUDS is just sour because his handicapping was poor, not the ride.

Yeah, there are no bad rides.Just bad handicappers.

[GPK]

Originally Posted by LOSE=GLUE

Do you even follow the DRF or racing in general? Baffert said before they went to NY from Cali that they didn't want to run considering he drew the 1 hole. And that was before the race. then in retrospect he was right they all broke well but gomez cannot afford to send going that far and then let songster sit in 3rd and run by them when they turn for home. He was stuck and by the sounds of the interviews by baffert after the race he knew that was gonna happen. The horse never has won from the inside. It is just asking too much for a 3yo to go balls out for 7 F. You Sound like you need to read the form a little more before you pin a bad ride on someone.

OF COURSE I SHOULDN'T HALF TO TELL YOU THIS IF YOUR A TRUE HANDICAPER. I SINGLED SONGSTER on my Pick 4 doesn't take a genious to figure that out!!!

I have been around long enough to know that SCUDS is one of the better handicappers on this board. Easily top 5 IMO.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by GPK

I have been around long enough to know that SCUDS is one of the better handicappers on this board. Easily top 5 IMO.

True.

If Lezcano was riding him ....

Originally Posted by GPK

I have been around long enough to know that SCUDS is one of the better handicappers on this board. Easily top 5 IMO.

That may be the case, but being a good handicapper doesn't mean you are a good bettor, and TMB was a bad bet. But like most gamblers instead of looking in the mirror, it's easier to blame someone else. Again, why will he not address what has been brought up about Baffert. Baffert is as sharp as they come, and he knew, like I did that there was a strong possibilty this would happen. That's why he thought about scratching. He must've figured they were second best at worst with the projected trip, so maybe they get lucky and the hole opens, if not take the $50,000 for second, and know that you have an explosive sprinter that can be rated.

Originally Posted by Scav

The french man has really impressed me lately with some of his rides...He is one kid that isn't afraid to shoot holes and make his own room in a legal fashion. I remember when he got tossed over the rail at Keeneland, only to get up the next race...Albarado would have taken a week off

Albarado is overrated.

I get SOLID rides from Raffie, Migs, Guidry, Nakatani, Emigh, Bridgo, Martin Jr(not today but in general) and Mena...

I couldn't agree more with Albarado, now he GETS horses beat. I'll agree with Guidry, Bridgmohan, Nakatani, Emigh (who I think is very underrated), but I can't stand the Mig. I just think he is spotty. like today he looked great but, a lot of the times he is average. For my money Javier Castallano is great. In my opinion the best turf rider out there, and I know I may be stretching a bit, but he consistently finishes, and is usually a fair price. Aside from the obvious Johnny V., Prado and Solis I think Castellano is the new wave of star jocks, along with my favorite frenchman Laparoux.

Originally Posted by Sweetness

I couldn't agree more with Albarado, now he GETS horses beat. I'll agree with Guidry, Bridgmohan, Nakatani, Emigh (who I think is very underrated), but I can't stand the Mig. I just think he is spotty. like today he looked great but, a lot of the times he is average. For my money Javier Castallano is great. In my opinion the best turf rider out there, and I know I may be stretching a bit, but he consistently finishes, and is usually a fair price. Aside from the obvious Johnny V., Prado and Solis I think Castellano is the new wave of star jocks, along with my favorite frenchman Laparoux.

Mig "spotty"??

The guy has ridden on the biggest premire circuit in the world for the last 25 years. A "spotty" rider does not do that.

And have you seen some of the sh!t the mig has had to put up with. He's got more metal in him than the Terminator. And on top of that hes been on some pretty bad horses as of late, but I am sure that he will still be in the top 8 at saratoga. He does it almost every year.

So do tell me how he is a "spotty" rider.

Originally Posted by belmont park is the best

Mig "spotty"??

The guy has ridden on the biggest premire circuit in the world for the last 25 years. A "spotty" rider does not do that.

And have you seen some of the sh!t the mig has had to put up with. He's got more metal in him than the Terminator. And on top of that hes been on some pretty bad horses as of late, but I am sure that he will still be in the top 8 at saratoga. He does it almost every year.

So do tell me how he is a "spotty" rider.

Yeah I know Mig's a warrior and all, and he's been better as of late. But he's been a fringe player on the circuit for those 25 years. He has never really stepped up to the big time, winning stake races consistently, and that is why I say he is spotty. I'm going to disagree with the top 8 this year, way too tough a colony.

Originally Posted by Sweetness

Yeah I know Mig's a warrior and all, and he's been better as of late. But he's been a fringe player on the circuit for those 25 years. He has never really stepped up to the big time, winning stake races consistently, and that is why I say he is spotty. I'm going to disagree with the top 8 this year, way too tough a colony.

I will make you a bet that he is 8th or above. He nowhere near what you call a fringe rider either. The guy can ride with the best and has proven it for the last 25 years. He is also stronger on a horse than any other jockey in the Ny room.

Who will be the 8 above him at toga than eh buddy?

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by belmont park is the best

Mig "spotty"?? The guy has ridden on the biggest premire circuit in the world for the last 25 years. A "spotty" rider does not do that. And have you seen some of the sh!t the mig has had to put up with. He's got more metal in him than the Terminator. And on top of that hes been on some pretty bad horses as of late, but I am sure that he will still be in the top 8 at saratoga. He does it almost every year.

So do tell me how he is a "spotty" rider.

Mig's been one of my faves for years and years... I'd also add to the above that he's overcome one debilitating major injury after another including the mistakenly re-set broken arm that could have ended his career.

[SentToStud]

my $0.02...

Mig's a favorite of mine. Still going strong and he's overcome a lot.

In general.... The California jocks are overrated. Small fields in almost all the better races. They rarely need to adjust or adapt. Plus the syle of racing in SoCal is far different than back east. In Cali, they ride like hell to the quarter pole and hope to crawl home first. East coast it's more the opposite ... the jocks back east ride to get position then work from the 3/8 on in. PVal would make the top 5 at any meet but any of the others?

Apprentices are overrated. LeParoux, Rosie, Garcia. Cannot put them in the same sentence as top riders until they prove it after dropping the bug. 5 lbs may not be enough to win any one race, but it means an awful lot over several hundred races. Whatever happened to Foglesonger?

Jockeys who dominate lesser circuits are overrated. I.E., Bravo looks like Arcaro every year in Jersey, but looks very ordinary at Gulfstream. Happens every year. Another is Castro. Doing ok at Monmouth but last year at Calder, he looked great on everything he rode. Now, his inexperience is being exposed and there's been some races he's looked just awful, especially routing on turf. There are very few, if any, top jocks at lesser tracks who can compete with the big boys... Ramon, arguably can. Russell Baze? Nope. Castro? No. Jeremy? Arguably maybe, but I say no.

IMO, the top jockeys are easy to identify. They're the top money winners.