United Front for AZ and Horseplayers v. AZ-HB 2694

[hi_im_god]

the law was passed may 3 and signed by the governor may 8.

and you're now organizing a protest by mainly out of state residents?

















i'm not suggesting this is a waste of time.


















but i don't think karl rove has anything to fear from you yet.

[Star of the North]

I hope the hard working students in the Racetrack Industry Program at U of A are taking notes. As long as racing is managed and promoted on a regional basis, this kind of development will continue.

Rather than haranguing the misguided electorate of Arizona, we should all make certain to show our displeasure to Turf Paradise management by not betting on their signal at any time, through any account provider or off-track betting location.

David M. Miller

[ALostTexan]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

the law was passed may 3 and signed by the governor may 8.

and you're now organizing a protest by mainly out of state residents?

i'm not suggesting this is a waste of time.

but i don't think karl rove has anything to fear from you yet.

Agreed. This may be a waste of time, but if it makes it any more difficult to pass legislation such as this in other states in the future it is worth it.

I am still quite amazed that this bill was passed without any notice of the ADW's or horseplayers. And in the state where I reside, no less.

I want the horsemen especially to know that this was a very unpopular move, and that they are the ones that will suffer in the end. And if this movement does anything to change the OTB situation in the state, the I have accomplished something. We have a very, very weak OTB setup, and it does eliminate most of the opportunity to wager on the races for myself.

I am also quite unhappy at the lies that Turf Paradise and Yavaipi are releasing to the racing media. They are making statements that simply are not true.

I appreciate the interest and help that everyone has shown and offered regarding this matter, and if it makes it any more difficult to pass legislation such as this into the future, then we have accomplished something as a group.

ALostTexan

[Stall Mucker]

Originally Posted by ALostTexan

At this point, most are very well aware of what has occured in the past few months in Arizona. If not, let me quickly review. The State Legislature in May passed HB 2694, which in essense makes it not only unlawful for horseplayers in the state to wager on races using ADW's, but makes it a Class 6 Felony, equilivent to indicent exposure, sexual conduct with a minor, or placing a person in iniment danger.

The implications on this are devestating to the entire world of horse racing. To the horsemen all states, this bill will be detrimental to the overall wagering handle, and regardless of how insignificant Arizona may seem now, this is one of the fastest-growing states in the nation, and the impact will only grow into the future. This also sets a very bad precedent, as this move can very well be taken in any other state in the nation. Finally, this move is very bad for the horsemen and live tracks in Arizona itself, as this has already caused an unpleasant rift between horseplayers and all involved parties in Arizona, and a blame-game is occuring as we speak.

The time is now for the horseplayers of Arizona and the rest of the nation to make a stand against this form of legislation. The current battleground is Arizona, and I am asking for a unified front in this state. Tomorrow morning, I plan on requesting a meeting with the Arizona Horsemen's Horseman’s Benevolent & Protective Association’s (AZHBPA) is discuss the current situation. I believe that the best course of action right now is a diplomatic effort to overturn this bill, and I and others very well connected to the situation believe that the horsemen are the best means of achieving diplomacy.

I am asking that the horseplayers and members of DerbyTrail.com unite to form a single voice.

I am asking that anyone that agrees that HB 2694 is wrong to please reply to this thread with your name, location, and any comments you wish to forward to the AZHBPA. Like others have done in the past with petitions, if you would like to use your real name and location but not post it, please fee free to PM me and I will write it in.

I am honestly not sure where the AZHBPA stands on this issue, and the meeting I will be requesting is only to share the information that I collect and make them aware that the online community is outraged with the events of HB 2694.

I will update this thread and any others that are important in the next few days. I appreciate any assistance that members give, and if anyone would like to talk over the phone or even in person, please feel free to PM me and I will provide contact information.

This is an important issue to all horseplayers, and we must take a united stand against this and similar legislation.

I will PM you at a later time. However, I find it fascinating that Arizona hosts the big simulcasting conference each year.

[mclem10011]

Is disturbingly UNFAIR! To equate the placing of a wager on a horse race, dog race, or any sporting event for that matter, with committing such crimes as a sexual assault, is beyond obsurd! It's about as wrong as wrong can get! What's next, if this allowed to pass?Maybe we should we lock up parking tickets offenders under the same statues as AX MURDERS? No, this bill is insanity, and should be killed BLACK FLAG DEAD!


Michael,
Jacksonville, Florida

[ALostTexan]

Update on Arizona HB 2694

Tomorrow morning (Monday October 16), I will be making the trip to Phoenix to meet with the head of the Arizona HBPA to share with him the names of the online horseplayers who are upset with the new law, and a number of the comments by the members of DerbyTrail.com and PaceAdvantage.com that have spoken out about this law. I have 95 names of people who have commented about the new law, and I will be emphasizing the potential and probable impact that this will have on the horsemen of Arizona. I show that the online community is serious about uniting against a wrong.

I appreciate all of the input from everyone on here, and will post updates tomorrow.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by JJP

Isn't it ironic that politicians from Arizona would come up with this idiotic law? Its not as if Arizona doesn't have a myriad of problems to deal with.

Not so surprising when one realizes that Arizona is being increasingly populated by expat Californians.

[ALostTexan]

Update


This morning I made the trip up to Phoenix to meet with the Interim Executive Director of the Arizona Horsemen's Benevolent Protection Agency, Tom Metzen, and with Eugene Joyce, General Manage of Turf Paradise. I walked away from the meeting with as much confusion and more frustration as I entered.

Presentation------------------------------------------------------------
To begin, I copied the Jon Forbes article from The Bloodhorse, and explained that regardless if these men were interested or not the rest of the industry is listening to members of the online forums, which didn't seem interest either of them. I then presented each with the list of 95 members of DerbyTrail.com and PaceAdvantage.com that have shown displeasure with the new law. After I tried to explain on somewhat deaf ears how many people across the country are unhappy with Arizona racing, I showed them 5 pages of comments left by everyone on the forums, pointing out how many were totally through with Arizona racing. Finally I showed them the front page of http://www.boycott-az-racing.com/, which got a bit of a laugh.

Discussion--------------------------------------------------------------
This entire law boils down to Source Market Fees, and the belief that the tracks in Phoenix and Prescott Valley should receive money on any and all wagers placed from the state, regarless of the track (such as Belmont) or location of the bettor (Douglas or St. Johns, for example). This is a very debatable topic, and one that I am not going to pursue. But the fact is millions of dollars are sitting in escrow accounts to be paid to Source Market Fees, but the current plan worked out by the horsemen of Arizona will not take the money.

I was quite irritated by the stance that ADW's contribute "nothing to live racing", and had to point out that money is comingled to the pools in the state, as well as license fees (according to one ADW), so money is pouring into live racing in the state. Both wanted to argue with me on this but were unable to, and both tried the stance that people were betting over the phone on Arizona races, which is total BS. If you were an Arizona resident, you couldn't place a bet through an ADW on Arizona races, and I have a difficult time seeing someone coming from out of the state to Yavapai Downs. Again, it comes back to Source Market Fees that would be gladly paid by the ADW's if the tracks would accept it.

I discussed the fact that OTB's in the state basically suck. If you want a very limited number of races from certain tracks, such as races 1-3 at Belmont or Races 3-6 at Santa Anita, then the OTB's in the state, especially in Southern Arizona, are fine, but who can handicap a card not being sure what is going to be covered that day. The product that the tracks provide is suboptimal, which is one reason that so many horseplayers were forced to bet online.

The three of us discussed the Indian situation in the state, and that under the current political leadership, nothing is likely to change anytime soon, meaning that this bill will only be overturned by the courts and not counter legislation.

Conclusion--------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest, I actually believe Mr. Joyce in that Turf Paradise wants ADW's in the state, and that in order to get a clear judgement on ADW's in the state a stiff law such as that had to be passed. I honestly believe that they hope the law is challenged in court and is shown to be unlawful, so that ADW's can reopen to the state.

I have a belief that the horseplayers will be included in future drives to change legislation in the state, which has obviously not be case in the past. I have the feeling that Mr. Joyce is on the side of the horseplayers in the end.

As for Mr. Metzen of the Arizona HBPA, I honestly felt I was wasting his time. He didn't seem to care one bit about what the horseplayers felt about this, and didn't seem to care of the impact that online horseplayers make on the game. From the moment that this meeting was scheduled, he seemed to be only be paying lip service to me and all of us I tried to represent.

Comments--------------------------------------------------------------
I am now up to comments on the meeting, and the suspected outcome of this meeting. Does anyone actually feel that anything will come of this, because I honestly do not. I hope that isn't the case, but what do you think?

I appreciate everyone's comments and support in this, and hopefully our voice will be heard in the end. Too often the one group that honestly supports racing is screwed, and that is the bettors.

[10 pnt move up]

See in Arizona even the money was too much to pass up in the end.

http://www.drf.com/news/arizona-legi...-wagering-bill

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by arizonadave

We are still waiting for the governor to sign it but it's always about the money

You dont have 84-7 vote counts with a veto, even in this state.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by arizonadave

yep, this went through very fast and with no problems.

as someone pointed out the ADW's have to work out the fee structure so that could take some time as the bill requires Tup to get some of the money.

[Dawgswin]

Originally Posted by arizonadave

Has anyone heard if this was signed by the governor yet?

SB 1282 was transmitted on the 24th, and the Governor hasn't taken any action on it as of this morning.

I do think the provision that requires Advanced Deposits to be done only be telephone is a little silly.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Dawgswin

SB 1282 was transmitted on the 24th, and the Governor hasn't taken any action on it as of this morning.

I do think the provision that requires Advanced Deposits to be done only be telephone is a little silly.

Did not even see that, kinda painful.

[Aly-Sheba]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Did not even see that, kinda painful.

So I read where the Governor signed the bill, however you can only bet over the phone, but not on the internet!! Amazing you can carry a gun into a bank out here in the wild west, but you cant effing bet on-line. WTF, some world we live in now days!!

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Aly-Sheba

So I read where the Governor signed the bill, however you can only bet over the phone, but not on the internet!! Amazing you can carry a gun into a bank out here in the wild west, but you cant effing bet on-line. WTF, some world we live in now days!!

I thought they were talking about deposits, it clearly says that phone is considered phone or internet. I have to read it again. Phone only would be painful.

[Aly-Sheba]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I thought they were talking about deposits, it clearly says that phone is considered phone or internet. I have to read it again. Phone only would be painful.

Got this from the Paulick Report website

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer has signed legislation that has legalized telephone wagering on horse and dog races. For many years, Arizona law has prohibited ADW wagering by residents of the state.

The bill was passed by the legislature a few weeks ago; however, language was removed that would’ve allowed placing bets via the Internet.

According to an Associated Press report, Gov. Brewer vetoed part of the legislation that would’ve allowed $1.2 million of the state’s budget to go to the Ariz

[10 pnt move up]

Yea just read it, pretty clear its phone only. Painful. I assume you will still be able to track your account and wagers but just not place them.

Better than nothing.

[Aly-Sheba]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Yea just read it, pretty clear its phone only. Painful. I assume you will still be able to track your account and wagers but just not place them.

Better than nothing.

You would think. Doesn't go in effect for 90 days