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#1
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#2
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![]() After all is said and done the only disparity in the comparable chart this year (if one was to compare only 3YO graded earnings vs. points) will be the winner of the Illinois Derby. Over time if the current system stays intact the Illinois Derby could lose graded status, eliminating any future disparity. Kind of sad for them.
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#3
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![]() The Illinois Derby thing was the only problem I saw with it. That race alone isn't a big deal, but it sets a terrible precedent. What if next they decide to eliminate NY races? Or force horses to prep in Kentucky?
I know those are a huge stretch, but the fact they can use one race to screw over another tracks marquis even just doesn't seem right to me. |
#4
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![]() So if Shanghai Bobby, heaven forbid, gets a saddle slip or throws a shoe and yet runs his heart out to hold 5th - he kisses Chruchill Downs goodbye. Unless 20 points can save him, then they rush him back in the Lexington and completely take away any chance of a TC campaign.
I'm not a fan at all of this. At the very least, the 2yo BC champion should get an auto-bid. |
#5
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#6
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__________________
“Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light’s winning.”–Rust Cohle – True Detective |
#7
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![]() Looking ahead it's probable that 14 horses will be locked in from the seven 100/40/20 point races. Add in the current 50+ point leaders and there will be 21 horses with at least 40 points. That places Oxbow (currently #8 with 36 points) and every horse below him behind at least 14 horses and possibly behind 21 others.
It's likely that a good percentage of the current leaders will make up a portion of the 1/2 finishers in the 100 point races and possibly every current leader could run 1/2 in the next set of preps. So as reasonable as the list appears now (Graded earnings vs. points) where only a handful of horses with high earnings/low points are outside looking in there are at least 13 horses in the current top 20 that could be bypassed by any horse who currently has zero graded earnings/zero points and can manage a 2nd place finish in the 100 point races. Wasn't it a few years ago that a horse who just broke his maiden finished 2nd in the Arkansas Derby, missed the earnings cut in Kentucky and turned out to be one of the leaders of the crop? Can't recall his name.Edit Summer Bird. 3rd in the Ark. Derby and to my surprise he ran in Kentucky. Anyway it may be that the 2nd place points for the next set of preps are disproportionate with points given to the winners of the early 3YO preps and the 2nd place finishers in the 1st leg of the championship series. I may retract my earlier statement that only the Illinois Derby winner would make a case in the earnings/points debate. Last edited by Port Conway Lane : 03-29-2013 at 03:59 PM. Reason: Summer Bird |
#8
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--Dunbar
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Curlin and Hard Spun finish 1,2 in the 2007 BC Classic, demonstrating how competing in all three Triple Crown races ruins a horse for the rest of the year...see avatar photo from REUTERS/Lucas Jackson |
#9
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I don't see any value at all in discrediting horses that run a decent 2yo campaign. the top runners in the Champagne traditionally do not embarrass themselves in the KY Derby, etc., so I don't really know what the point of all of this was, except to eliminate the Delta Jackpot winner from punching his ticket in November. Which could have been addressed by the Graded Stakes Committee, or by basically eliminating the race from contention (ala IL derby this year) People can't bitch about how lightly raced horses are these days, and then celebrate a selection process that encourages precisely that. |
#10
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you've had 27 winners (not including shanghai bobby) and of those 3 have placed in the derby. over he last 12 years you had street sense finally complete the double (he also won the tb derby and was 2nd in the bluegrass and would have qualified to start on those alone). but you also have 7 horses that didn't make the gate in may. 7 of the last 12. if i were forced to draw some conclusion it would bend toward success at 2 means a greater likelyhood of physical problems at 3. there seems to be more evidence for that in the record of recent juvi winners than anything that would support a "bye" despite the lack of any 3yo success. |
#11
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I agree that the BC Juvenile should be weighted so that the winner automatically makes the field. However, I will never weep for a Pletcher trainee who sat in his stall for two months while perfectly healthy. |
#12
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#13
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![]() These would be the races Id choose from Breeders cup until last weekend. All routes and all Graded
Sunland Derby Spiral Rebel San Felipe Tampa Bay Derby Gotham Risen Star Fountain Of Youth Southwest El Camino Real Robert B. Lewis Sam F. Davis Withers Holy Bull LeComte Sham Jerome Cashcall Futurity Kentucky Jockey Club Remsen Delta Jackpot Nashua Breeders Cup Juvenile |
#14
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#15
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![]() Because maybe he is one of the 20 best horses and is a recognizable name?
Everyone acts like because a horse better suited as a sprinter ran in the Derby or a horse who was precocious as a 2 yo runs in the derby that it is some kind of crime. |
#16
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![]() i disagree that the 2 yo bc winner should get an auto bid. i think the points system is doing a good job in ensuring that the best 3 yo's get in. if that doesn't include the juvie winner, it doesn't include him. it's up to the horse to earn a spot, and he's got as much time to do it as any other.
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Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all. Abraham Lincoln |
#17
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![]() The fastest 3yo in America is already excluded.
Dreaming Of Julia is going to have a gigantic edge in highest last out speed figure, on everyones speed figures, going into the Derby. She's a Pletcher going from Gulfstream to Churchill, so she's certainly unlikely to repeat that performance, but War Emblem and Charismatic both recently won the Kentucky Derby at huge odds with the highest last out speed figure going in. The people who defended this point system said it would keep undeserving fillies out ... well ... using the graded earnings system, here is a list of every single filly to race in the Kentucky Derby since 1945: 2010 Devil May Care 2008 Eight Belles 1999 Excellent Meeting 1999 Three Ring 1995 Serena's Song 1988 Winning Colors 1984 Life's Magic 1984 Althea 1982 Cupecoy's Joy 1980 Genuine Risk 1959 Silver Spoon That's a grand total of just 11 fillies. And 2 of them won it. I think the last filly to enter the Preakness was Rachel Alexandra, she won. I think the last filly to enter the Belmont is Rags to Riches, she won. More importantly, think of the way Rachel Alexandra won the Preakness. She got into a speed duel with eventual wire-to-wire Breeders Cup Sprint winner Big Drama ... and she still held off the dream pace setup Derby winner. More importantly, think of the way Rags To Riches won the Belmont. She stumbled badly at the start...and won a heroic stretch duel over a very respectable horse in 2-time Horse of the Year Curlin. People don't foolishly enter fillies in classic races. Look at the last 70 years... it just doesn't happen, ever. Rachel Alexandra would have been the top figure horse going into the Derby, and she opted for the Oaks. There are things in horse racing that are broke. The graded earnings system never was one of them. It's a case of trying to fix what wasn't broke. |
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