speaking of pensions

[Danzig]

http://news.yahoo.com/bond-insurer-c...9--sector.html

[dellinger63]

I'm sure Stockton still has assets, town hall, the police department building city owned parks etc.

Hopefully the city will be allowed to proceed with BK and creditors will at least receive something.

They f'd up and like a common taxpayer it's time to pay the piper!

And let this be a lesson to other towns to do some tweeking of its crazy pension obligations.

I personally think there's a RICO case involving government and public sector unions in many towns like Stockton around the country

[pointman]

There are two reasons why the City of Stockton would not negotiate with the unions regarding the pensions. One is that the Unions are already in many of the politicians pockets so the politicians will not negotiate with those they are in bed with. The second is that the politicians that are not in bed with the Unions don't want their's or their family's lives threatened and their City Hall blown up in retaliation for asking the unionized workers to share in the pain of the depression they are in with those in the private sector. Either way, I'm sure that deep down Calper's recognizes that the Unions would not budge an inch in negotiations even if they were held.

[Danzig]

i just feel that the whole case will end up opening a huge can of worms. if pensions are guaranteed, how can they be put up for discussion? why aren't they considered as part of a debt that can be up for negotiation? how 'guaranteed' is it? and why is it off limits, while other creditors are left holding the bag?
this issue has been coming for years with interest rates free falling, and is a perfect illustration of what happens when those in charge do nothing when they know a problem is coming down the pike. they probably thought it would just need a minor 'tweak'.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i just feel that the whole case will end up opening a huge can of worms. if pensions are guaranteed, how can they be put up for discussion? why aren't they considered as part of a debt that can be up for negotiation? how 'guaranteed' is it? and why is it off limits, while other creditors are left holding the bag?
this issue has been coming for years with interest rates free falling, and is a perfect illustration of what happens when those in charge do nothing when they know a problem is coming down the pike. they probably thought it would just need a minor 'tweak'.

Do we want to burden our great grand-children or settle this now?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dellinger63

Do we want to burden our great grand-children or settle this now?

well, judging by the way things have been going, it looks like our great grands are screwed. well, then again, maybe it's their great grands? it's the american way evidently.

[dellinger63]

Originally Posted by Danzig

well, judging by the way things have been going, it looks like our great grands are screwed. well, then again, maybe it's their great grands? it's the american way evidently.

yea well maybe we can get off our lazy asses and settle this for them. Public sector pensions are what they are. Nothing's guaranteed at least when you argue in court. As I've said in many cases it's a RICO case where the politicians, unions and pension fund managers have fraudulently ripped off the taxpayers.