Bernardini probably done...

Originally Posted by Cardus

Had he won the race, it could have been set at $500,000 I would think.

You're brave. I would have said 200k...

[Cajungator26]

He's well worth the $150k IMO (if that's what it's set at.)

Hell, even GZ started at $200k with an average ped.

http://www.darley.co.uk/jonabell/ind...nardini%20(USA)

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Balletto

http://www.darley.co.uk/jonabell/ind...nardini%20(USA)

Someone posted Bernie's stallion page last week.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Someone posted Bernie's stallion page last week.

Ahh, didnt see that. Unfortunately, word at the sale is pretty deafening. Its funny, we were both anti-Bernardini until he showed us he was a very talented 3yo... not much more than that... but thats more than enough. Oh well, it was nice for one race result, huh? lol

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Balletto

Ahh, didnt see that. Unfortunately, word at the sale is pretty deafening. Its funny, we were both anti-Bernardini until he showed us he was a very talented 3yo... not much more than that... but thats more than enough. Oh well, it was nice for one race result, huh? lol

Yep... it's pathetic that it took me as long as it did to be impressed with him. You know... I wouldn't call him a "great" horse, but he sure has a lot of talent. All of these negative posts to the Bernie supporters are kind of unwarranted IMO. The horse proved a lot to me on Saturday. He lost by one length to a better and OLDER horse, but he beat everyone else and did so even though he had been asked a bit too early by Castellano. It's a shame we won't see him run again. I would have loved to have seen him run...

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Yep... it's pathetic that it took me as long as it did to be impressed with him. You know... I wouldn't call him a "great" horse, but he sure has a lot of talent. All of these negative posts to the Bernie supporters are kind of unwarranted IMO. The horse proved a lot to me on Saturday. He lost by one length to a better and OLDER horse, but he beat everyone else and did so even though he had been asked a bit too early by Castellano. It's a shame we won't see him run again. I would have loved to have seen him run...

We're in the same boat... but that call after our own lil "personal victory" was pretty fun. lol

[kgar311]

Here we go baby. Now we can watch a real champion race next year without playing second fiddle to Dini. You all know who im talking about D.C.

[Cajungator26]

Invasor will be down at Palm Meadows. I wonder if they'll let anyone see him...

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Someone posted Bernie's stallion page last week.

I posted it but they then took it back down so the fact that they put it back up and added the part about Standing at Jonabell Farm doesn't look too good.

[GenuineRisk]

Well, if that's true, it bites. In that case, I'm glad he lost the BCC. I'm hopeful that will stick in the Sheik's craw, and may I also hope he doesn't sire a Derby winner? Bernie won't care; he's a horse and will get plenty of nice fillies and top-class care. The only ones who will care what he does in the breeding shed are the ones who own him. So there! Pbbbbt.

On the bright side:

http://bc.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36256

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

Well, if that's true, it bites. In that case, I'm glad he lost the BCC. I'm hopeful that will stick in the Sheik's craw, and may I also hope he doesn't sire a Derby winner? Bernie won't care; he's a horse and will get plenty of nice fillies and top-class care. The only ones who will care what he does in the breeding shed are the ones who own him. So there! Pbbbbt.

On the bright side:

http://bc.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36256

I dont know how you can wish "bad" upon the connections for making a safe business decision. Until you're in the position and you're shelling out money and watching each race with breath held hoping your horse returns safely, I wouldnt be so quick to JUDGE.

Yeah, maybe they do have more money than God, but he loves his horses and wants the best for them. And maybe, just maybe, the best for this horse is retiring now. You dont know the quirks and possibly physical ailments or weaknesses... stop assuming its your place or right to make such an ignorant comment.

You disagree with the retirement... GREAT... voice your opinion... we all will... thats what the forum is for and the right of all fans... but dont sink so low to ignorantly voice personal attacks and ill-wishes upon someone you dont know, especially a person who helps keeps this sport alive, more so than any other owner.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Balletto

I dont know how you can wish "bad" upon the connections for making a safe business decision. Until you're in the position and you're shelling out money and watching each race with breath held hoping your horse returns safely, I wouldnt be so quick to JUDGE.

Yeah, maybe they do have more money than God, but he loves his horses and wants the best for them. And maybe, just maybe, the best for this horse is retiring now. You dont know the quirks and possibly physical ailments or weaknesses... stop assuming its your place or right to make such an ignorant comment.

You disagree with the retirement... GREAT... voice your opinion... we all will... thats what the forum is for and the right of all fans... but dont sink so low to ignorantly voice personal attacks and ill-wishes upon someone you dont know, especially a person who helps keeps this sport alive, more so than any other owner.

Balletto, do you think they are retiring him due to injury or ailment?

Yes, it's a safe business decision. Though the safest business decision would have been not to ever run him at all; why, he could have broken down this past year! Come on...

I'm well aware this is a breeding business, first and foremost, and the sport aspect is basically to take money away from suckers, but not having any stake in breeding, I'm here because I like watching horses run. So I can be disappointed, and I can hope that retiring him turns out to not produce the superhorse that they're expecting and guess what, that doesn't make me an evil person. Because I'd like to see breeding take a backseat to racing. Not going to happen, but I can't help but be chagrined when a talented, young and as best I can tell, sound horse is rushed off to the breeding shed. It's a bummer for the fans.

Worst case scenario, what would happen to the Sheik if he ran Bernardini at four and God forbid, Bernardini broke down? Is the Sheik any poorer? No, because he's got all of us throwing oil back as fast as we can- he'll always be richer than any of us can ever fathom. Of any owners in the world, they are the ones who can afford to lose a valuable animal and not have it affect their financial stability. I'm of the opinion SJ was retired because the owners couldn't keep up with the insurance payments-- how much would he have had to win each year just to pay for that? I'm sure he was injured and worn out, but I think the insurance was a huge factor-- and I don't blame them. I understand the small-time owner retiring a horse and taking the money. These guys DON'T NEED IT. Decades past you had people breeding to race; these guys are breeding to breed. Boy, that's exciting. Woo hoo. Can't wait.

So no, I don't feel bad about hoping their hot prospect doesn't pan out in the breeding shed, because I don't get any thrill out of imaging Bernardini rutting away. I get it watching horses run. And again, he's a fracking horse. He doesn't care what I think of him; he's going to have a lovely life in retirement (a year too soon, as far as I'm concerned) so my ire is purely directed at a what I think is a poor sporting decision. And quite frankly, the Sheik doesn't give a rats' ass what I think of his decision, either.

So again, I say, pbbbbbbtttt.

I have absolutely no problem with your disappointment and attitude... I share it with you... but I would never wish a horse DIDNT pan out at stud because I was disappointed in his retirement. Hell, wish for a lot of talented babies that will keep your interest for many more years than their sire ever could!

I do apologize for jumping all over you... but I just hear SO many remarks against owners when they make a business decision about their horse. Trust me, when you own one, its a COMPLETELY different perspective.

[blackthroatedwind]

These doing " what's best for the horse " arguments are completely hypocritical. " What is best for horses " is to not race them period, as pretending this is a game that is about " what's best for horses " is pretty much to flat out lie. Frankly, these horses shouldn't even be born if one cares about " what's best for horses ".

Sorry, animal welfare arguments and racing simply do not mix. If they care so much about the safety of horses they should be spending their money to try to stop thoroughbred racing. Since, apparently they aren't doing that, at least in some ways, spare me that excuse. They are simply making a selfish economic decision. Stop trying to sugar coat it.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Balletto

I have absolutely no problem with your disappointment and attitude... I share it with you... but I would never wish a horse DIDNT pan out at stud because I was disappointed in his retirement. Hell, wish for a lot of talented babies that will keep your interest for many more years than their sire ever could!

I do apologize for jumping all over you... but I just hear SO many remarks against owners when they make a business decision about their horse. Trust me, when you own one, its a COMPLETELY different perspective.

Balletto, I don't doubt it's a completely different perspective for the owners (like yourself at some point, I'm guessing?) who don't have the kind of money the sheiks have. They are in a completely different game than virtually everyone else. There is no situation under which they will ever have to take financial considerations for anything. Ever. If their stables were a business, and not an extravagant hobby, they wouldn't be throwing the money they do at the sales every year. And hey, I'm thrilled for little guys who get some of that largess, hooray! But this is a hobby with no bottom line for them, and I can't help but feel retiring Bernardini (if he is sound, fair enough point) is about fueling their egos to get a Derby horse, not a business decision. It's a hobby decision, if you will. And as a fan, it makes me sad and so I can't help but NOT hope them the best of luck at it. Again, Bernardini will never know how his kids do, and so my affection for him is completely separate from my ire at his owner.

For those who love pedigrees and look forward to seeing Bern's babies run, great. I don't get any particular thrill out of following a horse's progeny, because I don't see a pedigree running; I see a horse running. Plus, I love little guy success stories, and I'm more interested in a horse who outruns his pedigree than one who barely meets it. There's no drama for me in a big horse throwing expensive foals who run well. More of a, "Well, duh? What do you expect?"

Of course, no hard feelings-- as I said, I imagine it is a completely different world for the average horse owner, and I can't fault SJ's owners, or AA's, or any of the little guys who hit it lucky, any more than I would fault someone like you if you got a big horse and then retired him. Injuries aside, keeping a big horse running is expensive if you don't have your family wealth, or oil wealth, or self-made vast wealth to fund the hobby. And maybe that's a problem with how horses are valued and insured; I don't know. But the sheiks? Money truly is no object for them. But of course, no hard feelings. I like lively discussions and as long as no one is calling names, s'all good with me.

And I admit to sneaking some peeks at pictures of SJ's babies... and I'll do the same with AA's next year...

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Balletto

I have absolutely no problem with your disappointment and attitude... I share it with you... but I would never wish a horse DIDNT pan out at stud because I was disappointed in his retirement. Hell, wish for a lot of talented babies that will keep your interest for many more years than their sire ever could!

I do apologize for jumping all over you... but I just hear SO many remarks against owners when they make a business decision about their horse. Trust me, when you own one, its a COMPLETELY different perspective.

The main reason I want to see him fail at stud is because I don't want more horses like him to be retired sound at the end of their 3yo season because they are considered "can't miss sires". Maybe a horse like Bernardini being a miserable failure in the shed would encourage more owners in the future to hold off on the shed and let their horse realize its' potential on the track since he's no sure thing in the shed.

Originally Posted by Cardus

Do owners hold their breath when it's a $50,000 claimer as opposed to a Grade One winner? There are a lot of racing fans who are not interested in the "safe business decisons" made in the name of horses who win a classic at 3 and are retired by the end of the racing season. While Grade One winners are just as vulnerable as the $50,000 claimer to injury, they should be just as inherently able to continue a racing career after their three-year-old seasons.

I think most owners do. If an owner doesnt, they have no business being in the sport. Animal well-fare comes first and foremost.

And thats my point, fans have every right to be disappointed and to voice their frusterations... but dont personally attack the connections and wish ill upon them for a decision that was made in what COULD be in the best interest of the animal.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

He's well worth the $150k IMO (if that's what it's set at.)

Hell, even GZ started at $200k with an average ped.

Ghostzapper is down to $150K. Dynaformer is up to $150K from $100K. They said horses that produces turf and dirt runners are going to be the hot sires, with polytrack playing a big role in racing now.

Nostradamus said the Bernardini fee is $200K. I am not sure where he heard that from.

Originally Posted by Revolution

Ghostzapper is down to $150K. Dynaformer is up to $150K from $100K. They said horses that produces turf and dirt runners are going to be the hot sires, with polytrack playing a big role in racing now.

Nostradamus said the Bernardini fee is $200K. I am not sure where he heard that from.

Could be. My dad was told 150, 200, and 175k. He just heard 150 multiple times though.