NYTHA Lasix Primer & Letter to NYS RWB

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

or perhaps it's because it could affect others? like i said, as soon as they can identify who will bleed with certainty, by all means, adjust the rules.

I ask again, what it the harm in waiting? Nobody seems to want to answer that question. The real reason nobody wants to wait until a horse actually bleeds to get Lasix is everyone knows it puts them at a competitive disadvantage. It really is that simple.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I ask again, what it the harm in waiting? Nobody seems to want to answer that question.

No. It's been answered multiple times. You've deliberately and repeatedly ignored it.

The answer is: 93% of horses experience EIPH when racing. Furosemide decreases that number. That is why the veterinary and scientific world overwhelmingly and without reservation advises furosemides' continued use as a therapeutic race day drug.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

No. It's been answered multiple times. You've deliberately and repeatedly ignored it.

The answer is: 93% of horses experience EIPH when racing. Furosemide decreases that number. That is why the veterinary and scientific world overwhelmingly and without reservation advises furosemides' continued use as a therapeutic race day drug.

Two questions...what about the other 7%? What is the harm in actually waiting until they bleed? It is obvious to me these bleeding episodes don't do any long term damage to the horse. The facts don't lie.

[Merlinsky]

Bob Baffert on Twitter -‏ @Midnightlute If they take race day lasix away I will recommend to all my clients to sell their broodmares asap. Racing will not survive.

So you'll help it along by telling your clients to sell their broodmares?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Two questions...what about the other 7%? What is the harm in actually waiting until they bleed?

Who is giving those horses lasix? You're the only one saying they are. Is that based upon your own personal experience with your own horses?

It is obvious to me these bleeding episodes don't do any long term damage to the horse. The facts don't lie.

The facts are that the veterinary scientific community says, repeatedly and with emphasis, that you are wrong. The veterinary community says that yes, Exercise-Induced Pulmonary Hemorrhage scars lungs and causes increasing and permanent damage over time.

No. The facts don't lie.

People who are non-scientifically oriented mistakenly think that simply saying something with conviction, and repeating it ever more loudly, makes something true. They are wrong. And it needs to stop.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Riot

Who is giving those horses lasix? You're the only one saying they are. Is that based upon your own personal experience with your own horses?



The facts are that the veterinary scientific community says, repeatedly and with emphasis, that you are wrong. The veterinary community says that yes, Exercise-Induced Pulmonary Hemorrhage scars lungs and causes increasing and permanent damage over time.

No. The facts don't lie.

People who are non-scientifically oriented mistakenly think that simply saying something with conviction, and repeating it ever more loudly, makes something true. They are wrong. And it needs to stop.

I don't own horses, never have, but I've been around plenty of barns. 93% bleed. Do you know the percentage of horses that get Lasix? Are you saying it is 93% or lower? Ummm, I think not.

By damage, I'm saying it doesn't cause a decrease in performance. If it did, we would see it on the track from all those Euro horses that aren't "entitled" to Lasix. Doesn't seem to phase them one bit.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I ask again, what it the harm in waiting? Nobody seems to want to answer that question. The real reason nobody wants to wait until a horse actually bleeds to get Lasix is everyone knows it puts them at a competitive disadvantage. It really is that simple.

because you said yourself, no one knows til it happens if it'll happen. you also said lasix doesn't harm a horse.

if there is potential harm if you don't use it, and no harm if you use it, why wait?


and 'everybody knows'? makes you wonder why then that some choose not to use it. or maybe that's because everyone doesn't know that. perhaps they paid attention to all the studies linked in the last week or so that said there is no advantage. but then, even tho there is proof there can be permanent lung damage from a severe enough bleeding episode, you're still insisting otherwise.

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because you said yourself, no one knows til it happens if it'll happen. you also said lasix doesn't harm a horse.

if there is potential harm if you don't use it, and no harm if you use it, why wait?


and 'everybody knows'? makes you wonder why then that some choose not to use it. or maybe that's because everyone doesn't know that. perhaps they paid attention to all the studies linked in the last week or so that said there is no advantage. but then, even tho there is proof there can be permanent lung damage from a severe enough bleeding episode, you're still insisting otherwise.

Your writing skills are horrid. I don't think your reading skills are much better judging by the things you attribute to me. I think it is best if I just ignore your posts from now on, sorry.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Your writing skills are horrid. I don't think your reading skills are much better judging by the things you attribute to me. I think it is best if I just ignore your posts from now on, sorry.

05-10-2012, 09:22 PM
cmorioles
Churchill Downs Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 1,959



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot
Here's your challenge: give any objective evidence at all to prove that lasix is harmful to horses.



you, cm replied:


Where have I ever said it was harmful? I am quite sure I have never said that. Feel free to keep making things up though.


then there's this exchange:

05-10-2012, 09:11 PM
cmorioles
Churchill Downs Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 1,959



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
and i will ask for a third time, how can you know if a horse will bleed? or when?

and thinking isn't a fact, it's an opinion.


this was your reply cm:




'You can't.'


but yeah, you're right on....i don't know what you've written. feel free to attack my writing skills rather than stick to the points. i've never claimed to be an english or writing major, so i'm sorry if i don't put things together too well. however, i do remember what i've read, and who wrote it.