The Classic

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

I don't know or care about who is or is not a superhorse. All I will say about Invasor is that he has beat the best the world has to offer on dirt. Maybe there will be a fair rematch with Discreet Cat.

btw, if u thought the competition that Invasor faced this year before today sucked, then surely u must say the same about Bernardini.

I do think that what Bernardini beat all year sucked. I thought that what Lava Man beat all year sucked too. These are the three leading contenders for horse of the year. And the horse that I think is the best horse period, Discreet Cat, has also beaten nothing. I think that's racing today though. There are just too many spots to run in and trainers avoid having to face other top competition. They just lay it all in one basket for BC day.

I don't take anything away from Invasor at all. He's the champion and that's clear. I'm just thinking that maybe instead of knocking Bernardini off the pedestal because he lost to Invasor, maybe we should consider what Invasor has been able to accomplish this year and put him up on the pedestal with Bernardini and consider that they are both special horses instead of neither.

[King Glorious]

What else is ironic is that it was Invasor that beat Bernardini. A lot of us had started to really get down on the sheikhs for being unsporting and not running Discreet Cat here against Bernardini and for other moves like pulling Dubai Escapade from the Sprint because they had Henny and pulling Ashkal Way from the Mile because they had Librettist and Echo of Light. Ironic that as we call them unsporting, they beat Bernardini with another of their own horses. I really didn't think they would run Invasor and when they did, I took it as a sign that they really didn't think he was able to beat Bernardini because they wouldn't sink their own ship. Guess again.

[Danzig]

still think they should have run discreet as well...if he was ready enough to run if bern wasn't, than why not run him regardless?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I do think that what Bernardini beat all year sucked. I thought that what Lava Man beat all year sucked too. These are the three leading contenders for horse of the year. And the horse that I think is the best horse period, Discreet Cat, has also beaten nothing. I think that's racing today though. There are just too many spots to run in and trainers avoid having to face other top competition. They just lay it all in one basket for BC day.

I don't take anything away from Invasor at all. He's the champion and that's clear. I'm just thinking that maybe instead of knocking Bernardini off the pedestal because he lost to Invasor, maybe we should consider what Invasor has been able to accomplish this year and put him up on the pedestal with Bernardini and consider that they are both special horses instead of neither.

About the competition, maybe it does suck if you look at it in a historical context. There just doesn't seem to be a great deal of depth or quality to the older handicap ranks anymore. I guess that part doesn't bother me so much, I have just accepted the horses we have as a fact of life.

As far as your last point, hey I've already been there, glad you are now joining me. I know you have already said you were wrong about Invasor but remember you recently called him a fraud. Now you want to put him on the pedestal with Bernardini. That's fine. I give you credit for admitting it. I have for a long time considered both of these horses as the best ones running here today and knew that it would be a close race.

In my view a combination of things occurred, Bernardini was over-rated and Invasor underated. So Bernardini drops a bit and Invasor goes up a bit and we find the truth which is that they're a couple of really nice horses, not separated by much.

Imagine what it would do for racing if both of these horses were to campaign next year!! I know it won't happen, but just imagine how thrilling it would be to follow them marching towards a possible rematch in the Classic.
I know, I know, I'm a dreamer.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

About the competition, maybe it does suck if you look at it in a historical context. There just doesn't seem to be a great deal of depth or quality to the older handicap ranks anymore. I guess that part doesn't bother me so much, I have just accepted the horses we have as a fact of life.

As far as your last point, hey I've already been there, glad you are now joining me. I know you have already said you were wrong about Invasor but remember you recently called him a fraud. Now you want to put him on the pedestal with Bernardini. That's fine. I give you credit for admitting it. I have for a long time considered both of these horses as the best ones running here today and knew that it would be a close race.

In my view a combination of things occurred, Bernardini was over-rated and Invasor underated. So Bernardini drops a bit and Invasor goes up a bit and we find the truth which is that they're a couple of really nice horses, not separated by much.

Imagine what it would do for racing if both of these horses were to campaign next year!! I know it won't happen, but just imagine how thrilling it would be to follow them marching towards a possible rematch in the Classic.
I know, I know, I'm a dreamer.

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. In a sport like this, where u are successful if u can win at a 35% rate, it still means u will be wrong at a 65% rate. That's a lot of wrong. This sport humbles u and u see different things in different races. I did call Invasor a fraud. If he could talk, he'd call me stupid. My only thing is that I think it's wrong to take Bernardini down (and I'm not saying u are) because he got beaten by another really good horse. As I said before, it happens. Four year old Slew beat 3yo Affirmed then the next year, 4yo Affirmed beat 3yo Spectacular Bid.

[Danzig]

true about those older beating their three year old comp...but invasor only turned four in july, being from the southern hemisphere. he and bernardini really aren't that far apart age wise...it's why they ran invasor in dubai earlier, because he still qualified as a three year old according to their rules.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. In a sport like this, where u are successful if u can win at a 35% rate, it still means u will be wrong at a 65% rate. That's a lot of wrong. This sport humbles u and u see different things in different races. I did call Invasor a fraud. If he could talk, he'd call me stupid. My only thing is that I think it's wrong to take Bernardini down (and I'm not saying u are) because he got beaten by another really good horse. As I said before, it happens. Four year old Slew beat 3yo Affirmed then the next year, 4yo Affirmed beat 3yo Spectacular Bid.

I know, some people act like they're never wrong on this stuff when the truth is all of us are wrong the majority of the time. Indeed its a humbling endeavor.