When "Neighborhood Watch" Gets Out of Hand

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

The Affidavit filed for Second Degree Murder charges:

http://apne.ws/Itn7Nu

This prosecutor is well-respected and is considered very tough. I'm sure she brought second-degree murder charges because that's what the evidence proves.

If you think, "she brought second-degree murder charges because that's what the evidence proves", then I assume you are predicting that Zimmerman will be convicted of 2nd degree murder. I predict that he will not be convicted of 2nd degree murder. We will see who is right.

[bigrun]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you think, "she brought second-degree murder charges because that's what the evidence proves", then I assume you are predicting that Zimmerman will be convicted of 2nd degree murder. I predict that he will not be convicted of 2nd degree murder. We will see who is right.

Don't think she was predicting that outcome but i'm with you that he will not be convicted of 2nd degree murder....looks like 4-1 odds on our side...good bet...Is Vegas taking action on this?....

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by bigrun

Don't think she was predicting that outcome but i'm with you that he will not be convicted of 2nd degree murder....looks like 4-1 odds on our side...good bet...Is Vegas taking action on this?....

I doubt anyone is taking bets but I totally agree with you. I think most legal experts would agree that it would be a longshot for Zimmerman to be convicted of 2nd degree murder based on the evidence we have seen so far.

Here is an interesting article that talks about what to expect going forward with the case. This article touches on many different issues that some of you may be curious about including how some of Florida's laws differ from other states.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rvers-say?lite

It will be interesting to see if Zimmerman is granted bail. For this type of case, I think the defendant normally would be granted bail. However, I wouldn't make a prediction in this case simply because there will be a huge amount of public pressure on the judge to deny bail.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

It will be interesting to see if Zimmerman is granted bail. For this type of case, I think the defendant normally would be granted bail. However, I wouldn't make a prediction in this case simply because there will be a huge amount of public pressure on the judge to deny bail.

No, they did not ask for bail today. He's in prison now. I heard he was being kept apart from other prisoners in his own cell for protection.

There appears to be only three defenses against 2nd degree murder, and self-defense is the only one Zimmerman appears to have. And considering Zimmerman followed and stalked Trayvon while carrying a loaded gun, self-defense doesn't look good.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

No, they did not ask for bail today. He's in prison now.

There appears to be only three defenses against 2nd degree murder, and self-defense is the only one Zimmerman appears to have. And considering Zimmerman followed and stalked Trayvon, self-defense doesn't look good.

I know that. But he is going to ask for bail well before his next hearing (May 29).

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I know that. But he is going to ask for bail well before his next hearing (May 29).

Ah. Got it. I don't know how they would keep him safe. He certainly can't go out in public.

He's in for a hell of a life, no matter what happens to him.

Did you read the wording in the affidavit of murder charge? Zimmerman "profiled" Trayvon is what was said.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

Ah. Got it. I don't know how they would keep him safe. He certainly can't go out in public.

He's in for a hell of a life, no matter what happens to him.

Did you read the wording in the affidavit of murder charge? Zimmerman "profiled" Trayvon is what was said.

"Zimmerman "profiled" Trayvon is what was said."

They can say whatever they want. Saying it doesn't prove it. They need to prove it.

While we're on this subject, I'm going to give you a hypothetical. Let's pretend you spotted me walking in your neighborhood and you didn't recognize me. You thought my body-language looked somewhat suspicious. In addition, let's say that I was black and this made you slightly more suspicious because there had been a recent string of burglaries in your neighborhood committed by black people.

So you call the police and then you follow me. You finally confront me and grab me by the arm. I punch you in the face and knock you to the ground. Then I get on top of you and continue punching you in the face and start banging your head on the cement. Then you pull out a gun and shoot me. Even in that scenario, I don't think 2nd degree murder would be a slam dunk. Even though you followed me and grabbed me by the arm, I still don't think it would be a slam dunk because when you finally shot me it was to save yourself from death or grave bodily harm. You probably couldn't claim self-defense since you grabbed me first.

Granted you would be at fault for starting the whole altercation. But if you had no plans to harm me and only wanted to hold me until the police got there, I think 2nd degree murder would be hard to prove. I think manslaughter would be more likely.

My hypothetical is a much stronger case for the prosecutor than the Zimmerman case because in the Zimmerman case I don't think there is any evidence that Zimmerman started the physical altercation.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

If you think, "she brought second-degree murder charges because that's what the evidence proves", then I assume you are predicting that Zimmerman will be convicted of 2nd degree murder. I predict that he will not be convicted of 2nd degree murder. We will see who is right.

You would ass-ume wrongly. The prosecutors reputation is exemplary, and is that of getting convictions, of being very tough and accurate. She didn't need a grand jury. I'm sure she's filed those charges, and not 1st degree murder charges, and not manslaughter charges, because she has evidence that readily meets the definition of 2nd degree murder.

If that's what he'll be convicted of, if he's convicted at all, I don't know what the jury will do.

[Riot]

Here's some interesting stuff about Florida murder laws (first and manslaughter there, too, on different pages)

http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes...tml#Definition

Second Degree Murder in Florida

If accused of Second Degree Murder in Florida, you need to know the:

Definition of Second Degree Murder
Penalties for Second Degree Murder
Defenses to Second Degree Murder

Definition of Second Degree Murder

The crime of Second Degree Murder occurs when a person commits either:

Murder with a Depraved Mind or
Accomplice Felony Murder

Murder with a Depraved Mind

Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

The primary distinction between Premeditated First Degree Murder and Second Degree Murder with a Depraved Mind is that First Degree Murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.

Accomplice Felony Murder

Accomplice Felony Second Degree Murder occurs when you are an accomplice to a person who kills another human being while engaged in the commission, or attempted commission, of the following statutorily enumerated felonies, regardless of whether they intended the death:

Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,
Aggravated child abuse,
Aggravated stalking,
Aircraft piracy,
Arson,
Burglary
Carjacking,
Distribution of Controlled Substances
Escape,
Home-invasion robbery,
Kidnapping,
Murder of another human being,
Resisting Officer with Violence,
Robbery,
Sexual battery,
Terrorism,
Trafficking in Controlled Substances, or
Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb.

Penalties for Second Degree Murder

The crime of Second Degree Murder is classified as a First Degree Felony and is assigned a Level 10 offense severity ranking under Florida's Criminal Punishment Code.

If convicted of Second Degree Murder, a judge is required to impose a minimum prison sentence of 16¾ years in prison and can impose any additional combination of the following penalties:

Up to Life in prison.
Up to Life on probation.
Up to $10,000 in fines.

10/20/Life

Under Florida's 10-20-Life law, a person who uses a Firearm to commit Second Degree Murder must be sentenced to a minimum-mandatory prison sentence of 25 years. [1]

Defenses to Second Degree Murder

In addition to the pretrial defenses and trial defenses that can be raised in any criminal case, specific defenses to the crime of Second Degree Murder are:

Excusable Homicide

The killing of a human being is excusable, and therefore lawful, under any one of the following three circumstances:

When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution and without any unlawful intent, or
When the killing occurs by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or
When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune resulting from a sudden combat, if a dangerous weapon is not used and the killing is not done in a cruel or unusual manner.

Justifiable Homicide

The killing of a human being is justifiable homicide and lawful if done while resisting an attempt by someone to kill you or to commit a felony against you.
Self Defense

Also known as the justified use of deadly force, self defense is a defense to the crime of Second Degree Murder. Please view the Florida Self Defense section for more information.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Riot

You would ass-ume wrongly. The prosecutors reputation is exemplary, and is that of getting convictions, of being very tough and accurate. She didn't need a grand jury. I'm sure she's filed those charges, and not 1st degree murder charges, and not manslaughter charges, because she has evidence that readily meets the definition of 2nd degree murder.

If that's what he'll be convicted of, if he's convicted at all, I don't know what the jury will do.

You said that you believe the prosecutor brought those charges "because that is what the evidence proves". If that is what the evidence proves, then why wouldn't you think he will be convicted of those charges?

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You said that you believe the prosecutor brought those charges "because that is what the evidence proves". If that is what the evidence proves, then why wouldn't you think he will be convicted of those charges?

Because juries don't leave their emotions out of it.