Santa Anita set to land 2012 Breeders’ Cup

[justindew]

I know I'll be ripped for this, but I don't think the BC should ever be held at Belmont. None of the races start in front of the grandstand, all of the dirt races are run around 1 turn (except the Classice which is 1 1/2 turns), and the weather seems to suck every time they host it. Other than the history of track, what does Belmont offer?. I have never been to Aqueduct, but is there some reason it can't return there? I know the weather is the same as Belmont, but at least fans could see the start and finish of most races, and the Distaff and juvys wouldn't be one-turn races.

Churchill may not even want it every year or every two years, but I'd let them host as often as they want it.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by justindew

I know I'll be ripped for this, but I don't think the BC should ever be held at Belmont. None of the races start in front of the grandstand, all of the dirt races are run around 1 turn (except the Classice which is 1 1/2 turns), and the weather seems to suck every time they host it. Other than the history of track, what does Belmont offer?. I have never been to Aqueduct, but is there some reason it can't return there? I know the weather is the same as Belmont, but at least fans could see the start and finish of most races, and the Distaff and juvys wouldn't be one-turn races.

Churchill may not even want it every year or every two years, but I'd let them host as often as they want it.

Belmont has the ability to hold a very large crowd. I would think that attendence revenue could have something to do with it. I'm not sure how Aqueduct will be setup as far as holding big crowds now, with the racino being put in.

Honestly Justin, you mention all the one turn races and races beginning away from the grandstand. Do you really think the BC cares about that? Hell, we have had races on synthetics, sprints on that stupid downhill turf course, the mile championship raced at a mile and seventy yards and so on. As far as the Juvys go, those races are going to be unbettable anyway with the whole race day medication deal. For all I care they could start them on the Belt Parkway, they are simply unbettable.

Can't argue about the weather, obviously I'm biased being from the east. It doesn't bother me and I don't think it's that big of a deal. We are talking end of October, not the middle of Feburary. I think that's the easy cop out excuse.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Belmont has the ability to hold a very large crowd. I would think that attendence revenue could have something to do with it. I'm not sure how Aqueduct will be setup as far as holding big crowds now, with the racino being put in.

Honestly Justin, you mention all the one turn races and races beginning away from the grandstand. Do you really think the BC cares about that? Hell, we have had races on synthetics, sprints on that stupid downhill turf course, the mile championship raced at a mile and seventy yards and so on. As far as the Juvys go, those races are going to be unbettable anyway with the whole race day medication deal. For all I care they could start them on the Belt Parkway, they are simply unbettable.

Can't argue about the weather, obviously I'm biased being from the east. It doesn't bother me and I don't think it's that big of a deal. We are talking end of October, not the middle of Feburary. I think that's the easy cop out excuse.

Not sure. I know Del Mar always cards a two-turn race to open the meet specifically for that reason.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by justindew

I know I'll be ripped for this, but I don't think the BC should ever be held at Belmont. None of the races start in front of the grandstand, all of the dirt races are run around 1 turn (except the Classice which is 1 1/2 turns), and the weather seems to suck every time they host it. Other than the history of track, what does Belmont offer?. I have never been to Aqueduct, but is there some reason it can't return there? I know the weather is the same as Belmont, but at least fans could see the start and finish of most races, and the Distaff and juvys wouldn't be one-turn races.

Churchill may not even want it every year or every two years, but I'd let them host as often as they want it.

This is complete nonsense. Belmont Park is a world class facility, whether races start in front of the grandstand or not is irrelevant. The fact that the Breeder's Cup refuses to hold races on the circuit of the best year round racing in America is indefensible.

What does Belmont have to offer? Besides being a world class facility, Belmont easily holds well over 100,000 people, will have a very strong handle for the Breeder's Cup, can card all the BC distances and is within miles of the greatest city of the world with world class hotels, entertainment, shopping, etc. It is closer for the Europeans to ship and the weather more or less tends to be on the milder side at the start of November.

I hope that NYRA sticks it to the Breeder's Cup and forms a Fall Championship series that puts the Breeder's Cup out of business once and for all. It will be real interesting to see NYRA do that if NY does not ban Lasix on raceday when the Breeder's Cup bans it. Wonder where the majority of American (and even European) horses will end up.

[TouchOfGrey]

For those that missed it on ATR this morning:

Sanan: Why Breeders' Cup chose Santa Anita

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by TouchOfGrey

For those that missed it on ATR this morning:

Sanan: Why Breeders' Cup chose Santa Anita

Love to hear Crist vs Sanaan on ATR's with Byk doing the play by play.. Maybe Simon could be the guest referee and hit Satish over the head with a chair

[tector]

Sanan is a douche. That fact that he's a docuhe with money who likes the horsey biz only goes so far to obscure his essential doucheyness. It's not far enough.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by tector

Sanan is a douche. That fact that he's a docuhe with money who likes the horsey biz only goes so far to obscure his essential doucheyness. It's not far enough.

I wish I would have been able to listen to ATR this morning. The write up on Paulick report makes Sanan sound exactly as you described.

I would almost guarantee that there is some ulterior motive when it comes to this Santa Anita stuff.

[NTamm1215]

If the attitude that Satish has shown in his last two appearances on Steve's show is indicative of what BC board meetings are like then there's no wonder the BC is a side show now.

Basically mocking Jennie Rees for looking for an explanation on why the BC is going back to Santa Anita was pitiful. Throwing out statistics like the BC being a money loser when it's at Belmont when it has NEVER been held at Belmont using the two-day format was irresponsible. Perhaps in the future someone on behalf of the BC can bring up exactly what it is that makes Belmont such a certain money loser.

He actually made the remark that the BC is the only shining light in the industry. Wow.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by pointman

This is complete nonsense. Belmont Park is a world class facility, whether races start in front of the grandstand or not is irrelevant. The fact that the Breeder's Cup refuses to hold races on the circuit of the best year round racing in America is indefensible.

What does Belmont have to offer? Besides being a world class facility, Belmont easily holds well over 100,000 people, will have a very strong handle for the Breeder's Cup, can card all the BC distances and is within miles of the greatest city of the world with world class hotels, entertainment, shopping, etc. It is closer for the Europeans to ship and the weather more or less tends to be on the milder side at the start of November.

I hope that NYRA sticks it to the Breeder's Cup and forms a Fall Championship series that puts the Breeder's Cup out of business once and for all. It will be real interesting to see NYRA do that if NY does not ban Lasix on raceday when the Breeder's Cup bans it. Wonder where the majority of American (and even European) horses will end up.

I hope you end up being the one who makes the argument to hold the BC at Belmont some day. Other than the "world class" argument (which you made three times), your other "points" are ridiculous. Just because it CAN hold 100,000 is irrelevent. It doesn't draw that many on BC day. And the handle that you described as "very strong" is lower than the handle would be at Churchill. Your point about being closer for Euros to ship is silly since Louisville is only another two hours by air. And say what you want about the weather. In 2001 at Belmont, it was friggen awful. And I suppose it can rain anywhere, so I won't bring up 2005.

Finally, saying that a race being run at one turn vs. two turns is "irrelevant" is perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on this site in a long time.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by justindew

Finally, saying that a race being run at one turn vs. two turns is "irrelevant" is perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on this site in a long time.

You obviously don't read your own posts.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by justindew

I hope you end up being the one who makes the argument to hold the BC at Belmont some day. Other than the "world class" argument (which you made three times), your other "points" are ridiculous. Just because it CAN hold 100,000 is irrelevent. It doesn't draw that many on BC day. And the handle that you described as "very strong" is lower than the handle would be at Churchill. Your point about being closer for Euros to ship is silly since Louisville is only another two hours by air. And say what you want about the weather. In 2001 at Belmont, it was friggen awful. And I suppose it can rain anywhere, so I won't bring up 2005.

Finally, saying that a race being run at one turn vs. two turns is "irrelevant" is perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on this site in a long time.

If you have been to a BC and honestly think the people in the crowd care about whether races start in front of the grandstand then you were hanging out with people who probably can't spell horse.

[pointman]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

If you have been to a BC and honestly think the people in the crowd care about whether races start in front of the grandstand then you were hanging out with people who probably can't spell horse.

Don't assume that he can spell horse.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

If you have been to a BC and honestly think the people in the crowd care about whether races start in front of the grandstand then you were hanging out with people who probably can't spell horse.

While I think having as many races as possible break from in front of the grandstand is a good thing, my main point here is that there is a major difference between one and two-turn races. Forget for a minute that I am the one making this point. Can you people at least agree that there is a difference between one and two-turn races, and that we would see one two-turn dirt race (Marathon) over two days if the BC was at Belmont?

I'm not anti-NY, and I don't have an ax to grind. That's why I proposed Aqueduct.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by justindew

While I think having as many races as possible break from in front of the grandstand is a good thing, my main point here is that there is a major difference between one and two-turn races. Forget for a minute that I am the one making this point. Can you people at least agree that there is a difference between one and two-turn races, and that we would see one two-turn dirt race (Marathon) over two days if the BC was at Belmont?

I'm not anti-NY, and I don't have an ax to grind. That's why I proposed Aqueduct.

My response doesn't have anything to do with the statement being from you. Having been to multiple Breeders' Cups sitting in the grandstand the majority of the people I've run into are racing fans. They understand the game and have not been the types that care about where races start. Is the statement you made valid? Sure, Belmont is very unique and horses who have been running around two turns all year will have to make an adjustment. The good thing is that there's a terrific stakes program in NY where they can test out handling a one-turn 8.5-9fs.

As for the weather argument, perhaps I'm just not the type to ever entertain that thought since I live in one of the most miserable places in the country from May-September (sometimes more). If its in the 30s on race day it could be a lot worse and I'm fully expecting it to be chilly at Churchill this year.

[Danzig]

what's the benefit of a race being over two turns rather than one? how does it affect the quality of the race? just because two turns is the norm doesn't make it better.

[Kasept]

Paul Moran sounds a perfectly toned response to the Breeders' Cup location quandry..

Breeders' Cup takes step toward failure
By Paul Moran

[pointman]

Originally Posted by justindew

I hope you end up being the one who makes the argument to hold the BC at Belmont some day. Other than the "world class" argument (which you made three times), your other "points" are ridiculous. Just because it CAN hold 100,000 is irrelevent. It doesn't draw that many on BC day. And the handle that you described as "very strong" is lower than the handle would be at Churchill. Your point about being closer for Euros to ship is silly since Louisville is only another two hours by air. And say what you want about the weather. In 2001 at Belmont, it was friggen awful. And I suppose it can rain anywhere, so I won't bring up 2005.

Finally, saying that a race being run at one turn vs. two turns is "irrelevant" is perhaps the dumbest thing I have read on this site in a long time.

It is the same broken record with you. You say something stupid, you get called out on it, and you immediately resort to demeaning comments instead of an actual cogent defense of your never ending stupidity.

No one cares where the races start except you. Tracks have different configurations for different distances all across America, Belmont just happens to be unique but has always been considered a major racetrack. Since the Breeder's Cup began Belmont has been part of the rotation. Please tell me why it makes a difference whether a Championship is constested around 1 or 2 turns for any given Breeder's Cup distance or event. Considering that they ran "dirt championships" on rubber for 2 years I can't see why they would be concerned about 1 or 2 turn races.

How can you say that handle at Churchill will be higher than at Belmont? The last time the Breeder's Cup was held at Belmont it had the highest total handle in the history of the Breeder's Cup to that point despite the weather and it was still only a one day event. The point of the Breeder's Cup was to showcase the top class racing end of year Championship around America, yet they don't want to run it on the best circuit in America and one of clearly the top 3. Is the chance of bad weather at Belmont any worse than it is at Churchill? If they were so concerned about weather, then why go to Woodbine. Who is to say that with a nice day Belmont can't draw much more than they did 6 years ago?

So please, tell me how my points are ridiculous, dewchebag. Keep talking out of your a$$

[Clip-Clop]

correct me if I am wrong but the Met Mile winner is generally thought of as the best dirt miler, no?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by pointman

It is the same broken record with you. You say something stupid, you get called out on it, and you immediately resort to demeaning comments instead of an actual cogent defense of your never ending stupidity.

No one cares where the races start except you. Tracks have different configurations for different distances all across America, Belmont just happens to be unique but has always been considered a major racetrack. Since the Breeder's Cup began Belmont has been part of the rotation. Please tell me why it makes a difference whether a Championship is constested around 1 or 2 turns for any given Breeder's Cup distance or event. Considering that they ran "dirt championships" on rubber for 2 years I can't see why they would be concerned about 1 or 2 turn races.

How can you say that handle at Churchill will be higher than at Belmont? The last time the Breeder's Cup was held at Belmont it had the highest total handle in the history of the Breeder's Cup to that point despite the weather and it was still only a one day event. The point of the Breeder's Cup was to showcase the top class racing end of year Championship around America, yet they don't want to run it on the best circuit in America and one of clearly the top 3. Is the chance of bad weather at Belmont any worse than it is at Churchill? If they were so concerned about weather, then why go to Woodbine. Who is to say that with a nice day Belmont can't draw much more than they did 6 years ago?

So please, tell me how my points are ridiculous, dewchebag. Keep talking out of your a$$

can't argue with any of that-ny would be just as capable of bad weather as arlington and churchill, or monmouth and woodbine. belmont absolutely should be part of a rotation. i don't recall anyone having any complaints about racing there at past bc's. i certainly don't recall any issues about only having 1 turn in the races. i would think that'd be a good thing.