Congrats to the new Hall of Famers...

[smuthg]

2011 Hall of Fame Class - Jerry Hollendorfer, Open Mind, Safely Kept and Sky Beauty

[LARHAGE]

I'm happy for Hollendorfer, he deserves it, I thought Johnny and Garrett have too many years to go, they can both wait, and frankly, Borel doesn't deserve it. I also loved all 3 fillies, they belong in as well. I actually wish the people were like the horses, get it when you are retired, why the rush?

[King Glorious]

If I had a vote, Sky Beauty and Safely Kept would both be left out. I have a rule that I apply and that says that a horse has to have been voted HOY at least once OR have won divisional championships in more than one season. I also strongly favor a horse that wins outside of their division. Safely Kept didn't satisfy either one of those requirements and let's be honest, that BC win was because Dayjur lost. She didn't beat him. I really loved her but that's the truth. With Sky Beauty, she also failed to satisfy a requirement and never won outside of her division. She was quite brilliant in NY but much more ordinary than great outside of the state.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If I had a vote, Sky Beauty and Safely Kept would both be left out. I have a rule that I apply and that says that a horse has to have been voted HOY at least once OR have won divisional championships in more than one season. I also strongly favor a horse that wins outside of their division. Safely Kept didn't satisfy either one of those requirements and let's be honest, that BC win was because Dayjur lost. She didn't beat him. I really loved her but that's the truth. With Sky Beauty, she also failed to satisfy a requirement and never won outside of her division. She was quite brilliant in NY but much more ordinary than great outside of the state.

To each his own. I don't care for that rule as it leaves out Easy Goer and Alydar.
You're right about the Dayjur thing as far as that race itself but to me it takes nothing away from Safely Kept's overall record. If I had a vote she would be in.

[LARHAGE]

I think that would be unfair to fillies and mares to have to win HOY to be in the Hall, the only way fillies and mares ever win HOY are in the abscence of a strong male runner, I think they should have to at the very least be a divisional champion. I also think a Jockey should as well, if you can't even be the Champion jock in a year how can you be an alltime candidate? The trainers are the most subjective , but I feel Hollendorfer is definately worthy.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by LARHAGE

I think that would be unfair to fillies and mares to have to win HOY to be in the Hall, the only way fillies and mares ever win HOY are in the abscence of a strong male runner, I think they should have to at the very least be a divisional champion. I also think a Jockey should as well, if you can't even be the Champion jock in a year how can you be an alltime candidate? The trainers are the most subjective , but I feel Hollendorfer is definately worthy.

I didn't say you HAVE to be horse of the year. I said either win that once OR be a divisional champion in more than one year. For example, Open Mind was champion 2yo filly and 3yo filly. Safely Kept was named champion sprinter in 1990. If she had been the winner in 1989 also, that would be her two. Meeting this would get a horse considered but that alone wouldn't make it automatic as is would make less than zero sense to have Open Mind in and Easy Goer out.

I just don't like situations where a case has to be made for any entrant into any hall of fame. If you have to take out their resume and make a case for them, I don't think they belong. When Zenyatta and Goldikova are eligible, if you have to pull out the pp's to see what they did, you shouldn't have a vote. I'd have a very select membership.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I didn't say you HAVE to be horse of the year. I said either win that once OR be a divisional champion in more than one year. For example, Open Mind was champion 2yo filly and 3yo filly. Safely Kept was named champion sprinter in 1990. If she had been the winner in 1989 also, that would be her two. Meeting this would get a horse considered but that alone wouldn't make it automatic as is would make less than zero sense to have Open Mind in and Easy Goer out.

I just don't like situations where a case has to be made for any entrant into any hall of fame. If you have to take out their resume and make a case for them, I don't think they belong. When Zenyatta and Goldikova are eligible, if you have to pull out the pp's to see what they did, you shouldn't have a vote. I'd have a very select membership.

How many fillies win grade 1 races sprinting at 2, going 1 1/4 at 3 and carry 130 pounds in winning a grade 1 at 4? If the owner hadn't insisted on running a the filly when she wasnt 100% at Hollywood SB would have won 2 championships.
If they had a filly sprint championship dont you think Safely kept would have won 3 times?

These 2 horses were a combined 39 for 52 with 49 in the money placing's, virtually all in graded stakes.

If these aren't hall of famers then the hall of fame shouldn't bother anymore.

[Rileyoriley]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I didn't say you HAVE to be horse of the year. I said either win that once OR be a divisional champion in more than one year. For example, Open Mind was champion 2yo filly and 3yo filly. Safely Kept was named champion sprinter in 1990. If she had been the winner in 1989 also, that would be her two. Meeting this would get a horse considered but that alone wouldn't make it automatic as is would make less than zero sense to have Open Mind in and Easy Goer out.

I just don't like situations where a case has to be made for any entrant into any hall of fame. If you have to take out their resume and make a case for them, I don't think they belong. When Zenyatta and Goldikova are eligible, if you have to pull out the pp's to see what they did, you shouldn't have a vote. I'd have a very select membership.

Safely Kept was champion sprinter in 1989. Housebuster was the 1990 champ.

[FATPIANO]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How many fillies win grade 1 races sprinting at 2, going 1 1/4 at 3 and carry 130 pounds in winning a grade 1 at 4? If the owner hadn't insisted on running a the filly when she wasnt 100% at Hollywood SB would have won 2 championships.
If they had a filly sprint championship dont you think Safely kept would have won 3 times?

These 2 horses were a combined 39 for 52 with 49 in the money placing's, virtually all in graded stakes.

If these aren't hall of famers then the hall of fame shouldn't bother anymore.

Thank You, Thank You, Thank you

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How many fillies win grade 1 races sprinting at 2, going 1 1/4 at 3 and carry 130 pounds in winning a grade 1 at 4? If the owner hadn't insisted on running a the filly when she wasnt 100% at Hollywood SB would have won 2 championships.
If they had a filly sprint championship dont you think Safely kept would have won 3 times?

These 2 horses were a combined 39 for 52 with 49 in the money placing's, virtually all in graded stakes.

If these aren't hall of famers then the hall of fame shouldn't bother anymore.

We just have different ideas on what a hall of fame should look like. I don't want any horses in there that cause debate. I only want entries that are no-brainer choices for the vast majority. I want a horse that, if you have a room of 10 people and you go around the room and ask all for a yes or no vote, you get at least eight yes votes without hesitation. Not one that gets six yes votes, two no votes and two others that say they need to look at the horse's record real quick to make a decision. So it's just a difference of opinion on what should make a hall of famer.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

We just have different ideas on what a hall of fame should look like. I don't want any horses in there that cause debate. I only want entries that are no-brainer choices for the vast majority. I want a horse that, if you have a room of 10 people and you go around the room and ask all for a yes or no vote, you get at least eight yes votes without hesitation. Not one that gets six yes votes, two no votes and two others that say they need to look at the horse's record real quick to make a decision. So it's just a difference of opinion on what should make a hall of famer.

If you have a room of 10 people with clue then you would have gotten 10 yes votes for this years inductees.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you have a room of 10 people with clue then you would have gotten 10 yes votes for this years inductees.

I guess that makes me clueless. Which comes as no surprise to you I'm sure.

[FATPIANO]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

If you have a room of 10 people with clue then you would have gotten 10 yes votes for this years inductees.

lol.......................agree 110%