What was worse? The officiating in the STJ-Rutgers game or SA Handicap?

[NoLuvForPletch]

Has anyone seen such a bad run for officials? At this rate, people might forget about Jim Joyce's gargantuan mistake by the time the 2011 baseball season begins.

It will forever be discussed that as long as humans are involved in officiating, their supposed non-biased approach will always be called into question.

Someone needs to tell me how anyone can watch the last minute of the RU-STJ game and tell me how the only fouls called at the end of the game were the intentional fouls against RU to stop the clock and the silly blocking call against Biruta 25 feet from the basket? While STJ got away with a charge on the baseline, a flagrent violation of the rule of verticality on the Coburn drive and the over the back not called when Mitchell was pushed out of bounds in his attempt to secure a missed free throw. And that was even before Brownlee walked, stepped out of bounds and heaved the ball into the stands with time remaining on the clock. How can one think there aren't other things in play here?

Now Saturday's events in California are just another example of this. Many have suggested that Baffert's role in this incident may have been the factor that tipped the scales in Game on Dude's favor. Stewards concerned with who might make more noise about the incident, or how big the race is being involved in determining what action to take are factors we are led to believe do not influence their final decision. How can anyone possibly believe that?

Unfortunately, there is likely no solution to this mess. Is there?

[Cannon Shell]

The SJU/Rutgers game was easily worse. The SA handicap was a tough judgement call. Some of the calls/non-calls in the basketball game were hard to classify as judgement calls and the guy being out of bounds with 1.7 seconds to go is an egregious error. Plus basketball refs go through training and are reviewed each year. Stewards are usually just politically connected. Refs should be better.

[jwkniska]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The SJU/Rutgers game was easily worse. The SA handicap was a tough judgement call. Some of the calls/non-calls in the basketball game were hard to classify as judgement calls and the guy being out of bounds with 1.7 seconds to go is an egregious error. Plus basketball refs go through training and are reviewed each year. Stewards are usually just politically connected. Refs should be better.

I agree totally. I also heard they've been suspended for rest of big east tourney too.

[Indian Charlie]

Big Crap was far worse.

As far as any of us know, Rutgers may or may not have won the game. They probably were not going to convert however.

The stewards completely screwed up the Big Crap result. Anyone that can watch that race and not see the obvious foul caused by GOD really needs to have their eyes examined and perhaps their psyche as well.

[Indian Charlie]

Oh, and don't forget. The incident clearly caused by GOD ended up resulting in a significant injury to Setsuko.

[MaTH716]

The St. Johns game by far. Especially when the number on the game was 128 1/2.

[herkhorse]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

The St. Johns game by far. Especially when the number on the game was 128 1/2.

Do you really think that was why the refs blew that call?

[slotdirt]

The fouls on Kennedy and the "over-the-back" are debateable. Anybody who says anything to the contrary didn't watch a second of the rest of that game, where Rutgers made a living going "over the back" on putbacks.

The last two seconds being completely botched like that are inexcusable though, and Higgins, Burr, and Earl Watson have been removed from the rest of the BET for their actions. Still, it's freaking Rutgers, there's as much a chance that I'm going to make out with Ali Larter tonight as there was for Rutgers to figure out how to win a game from half court with 1.7 seconds on the clock.

[slotdirt]

P.S. - the score would have gone over 128 if St. John's had hit any number of free throws in the closing minutes. So if you're saying the refs had something to do with it, you're also saying the St. John's players were on the take. And that I certainly don't believe.

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by herkhorse

Do you really think that was why the refs blew that call?

With or without the number being what it was, the amount of calls that were missed in that last 30 seconds to a minute was ridiculous. I just found it interesting about the over/under. I didn't lose any money or lose any sleep over what happened.

[jwkniska]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

With or without the number being what it was, the amount of calls that were missed in that last 30 seconds to a minute was ridiculous.

I agree. I saw at least 5 mistakes that were blatant in the last minute (and that's coming from someone that used to ref games).

[slotdirt]

Sorry, but aside from the obvious end of game situation and the equally as obvious goaltending non-call on Jonathan Mitchell with about two minutes to play, what plays, exactly, would folks say were "blatant" fouls that weren't called? And don't say the Kennedy or the Mitchell "over the back," because neither appeared to be blatant in my book.

[asudevil]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Big Crap was far worse.

As far as any of us know, Rutgers may or may not have won the game. They probably were not going to convert however.

The stewards completely screwed up the Big Crap result. Anyone that can watch that race and not see the obvious foul caused by GOD really needs to have their eyes examined and perhaps their psyche as well.

I just left the optometrist...headed for my shrink's office. Hope he refills the Kleenex box for me.

[somerfrost]

SJU/ Rutgers by a mile. the Big Cap was a roughly run race to be sure but I watched replays, particularly the head-on, and I think that was a judgment call. Jock tried to force his way through a hole that closed...happens all the time.

[jwkniska]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Sorry, but aside from the obvious end of game situation and the equally as obvious goaltending non-call on Jonathan Mitchell with about two minutes to play, what plays, exactly, would folks say were "blatant" fouls that weren't called? And don't say the Kennedy or the Mitchell "over the back," because neither appeared to be blatant in my book.

I didn't have a problem with the 'over the back' plays, because those weren't fouls in my book either. The goaltending one was obvious. Travelling with about 2.5 sec left. Out of bounds with 1.7 sec left. Throwing ball into the crowd after going out of bounds and travelling (if you throw the ball up to kill off a sec or 2 at the end of a game, that's one thing because the ball is in your possession, but since he travelled and was out of bounds, it is NOT in his possession due to that and the guy should have gotten a T for it). The other was a guy got undercut on a rebound with about 30-40 sec left (don't remember exactly who it was but it was a guy backing under someone, not an over the back).

[OldDog]

Originally Posted by jwkniska

Travelling with about 2.5 sec left. Out of bounds with 1.7 sec left. Throwing ball into the crowd after going out of bounds and travelling (if you throw the ball up to kill off a sec or 2 at the end of a game, that's one thing because the ball is in your possession, but since he travelled and was out of bounds, it is NOT in his possession due to that and the guy should have gotten a T for it).

On these errors alone the STJ/Rutgers game comes out much worse than the judgement calls at Santa Anita (in which I happen to agree with the no-call after watching it a few dozen times).

[MaTH716]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Sorry, but aside from the obvious end of game situation and the equally as obvious goaltending non-call on Jonathan Mitchell with about two minutes to play, what plays, exactly, would folks say were "blatant" fouls that weren't called? And don't say the Kennedy or the Mitchell "over the back," because neither appeared to be blatant in my book.

I thought Colburn was fouled going to the hoop with 9 seconds left.
Then the problem with the non-over the back call (which I thought it was), even after it wasn't called Kennedy fell into Mitchell causing him to fumble the ball out of bounds. So now no foul was called and they lost the possesion, which they would have had if Mitchell wasn't barreled in to. Then obviously the ending, which to make matters worse could have been reviewed. It seems these days they review everything, but the Refs couldn't get off the court fast enough.



Edited: I originally reversed the players.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by asudevil

I just left the optometrist...headed for my shrink's office. Hope he refills the Kleenex box for me.

Let me know how your visit went.

[NoLuvForPletch]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

Sorry, but aside from the obvious end of game situation and the equally as obvious goaltending non-call on Jonathan Mitchell with about two minutes to play, what plays, exactly, would folks say were "blatant" fouls that weren't called? And don't say the Kennedy or the Mitchell "over the back," because neither appeared to be blatant in my book.

I agree, the goaltend was a missed call as well. But to dispute the foul on Coburn (the defender was not remorely close to vertical) or Mitchell (I was unaware you could push someone in the back) is a little silly. They basically didn't call anything in the final minutes that wouldn't be considered egregious except the foul on Biruta, which likely was a foul but in comparison to the others would have been the least likely to be called. It just so happens that it was called at a time when St John's was behind on the scoreboard. The ONLY time St John's was behind on the scoreboard.

[slotdirt]

Yeah, but that call is barely ever made in an end of game situation, and moreover, the contact there was less than the contact allowed throughout the game. I thought calling a foul there would have been completely inconsistent with the officiating ther emainder of the game.

And if Jonathan Mitchell would have just been strong with the ball, he wouldn't have lost it out of bounds.

Look, I can see the complaints about the awful end of the game, but the other stuff happens all the time and wouldn't even be an issue if Fran Fraschilla - who was fired from St. John's because he reportedly showed his players his genitalia - hadn't made a huge deal of it.