Here's why 5Dimes is better than Pinnacle

[Dunbar]

I want to show that you don’t have to be a great or even a good capper to benefit from the 5Dimes bonus. Even a dart-throwing capper would do better with 5Dimes’ 10% bonus than with Pinnacle’s 7% rebate.

Let’s use $50 bets on 4-1 shots, like before. If the track take is 16%, then a 4-1 horse will have 16.8% of the total pool bet on it.*(see below) If we are just dart-throwing cappers, then we should have a 16.8% chance of winning bets on 4-1 horses.

Betting at 5Dimes, we will win 16.8 times in every 100 bets. (forgive the fractional win!). The track payoff on a $50 bet is $250, and we are getting an extra $25 each time we win:
After 100 bets, we have 16.8 * $25 = $420. That’s still better than the $350 we’d get from Pinnacle’s 7% rebate.

A dart thrower will end up with 20% more bonus/rebate money at 5Dimes than at Pinnacle. (assuming both the 10% bonus and the 7% rebate are applicable)

--Dunbar

*Explanation of 16.8% fig:
Say the total win pool is 100,000. Then after taking out the 16% track take, there will be 84,000 left. If a horse goes off at 4-1, that means that 1/5 of the $84,000 has been bet on it. 1/5 of 84,000 is $16,800. And $16,800 is 16.8% of the original 100,000 pool. If we are average bettors, we have a 16.8% chance of winning on 4-1 shots.

[randallscott35]

Dunbar,
I have no problem with your numbers. But I don't simply bet to win all the time. Yes 5 DImes is a A book, but it isn't as rock solid as Pinnacle to me (this can be argued I understand) I bet Sunriver across in the Derby 500WPS. Now with 5 DImes, I get no rebate. With Pinny you get 60 bucks back. Better than nothing, no?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Dunbar,
I have no problem with your numbers. But I don't simply bet to win all the time. Yes 5 DImes is a A book, but it isn't as rock solid as Pinnacle to me (this can be argued I understand) I bet Sunriver across in the Derby 500WPS. Now with 5 DImes, I get no rebate. With Pinny you get 60 bucks back. Better than nothing, no?

Randall, I'd probably concede that Pinnacle is marginally more solid than 5Dimes. I don't know that for a fact, but they do handle humongous volume. But 5Dimes has earned its "A" rating with many years of fast payouts and good customer service.

If you make a lot of place and show bets, then you have to have an account at Pinnacle. I personally would still make the win bet at 5Dimes. On your Sunriver bet, you collected $20 back from Pinnacle, win or lose on your win bet. If Sunriver had won, you would have collected an extra $350 in your payout at 5Dimes. If you win your bet once every 17 times, you do better with the bonus. I expect you are winning your 6-1 bets much more frequently than once every 17 times!

Let's say you win your 6-1 bets just 12% of the time. (that's about the rate of a dart-thrower) Then you will average $42 extra (12%*350=$42) from 5Dimes compared to the $20 you got from Pinnacle on your win bet. So, any win bet you make at Pinnacle on a Belmont or Aqueduct horse is earning less than 1/2 the longrun bonus money it would earn at 5Dimes. That's a lot to be giving up.

I make very few place and show bets, but when I do, I will make them at Pinnacle. If I had to choose between giving up the rebates on my (few) place and show bets and giving up the bonus on my 5Dimes win bets, I'd keep the 5Dimes account.

But I agree that if you make a lot of place and show bets, AND you have to pick one book, then Pinnacle is your best book.

--Dunbar

[Scav]

I like this guy Randall, articulate and knows how to argue constructively, something that in the past hasn't happens with some people around here.

[Rupert Pupkin]

I believe Dunbar is correct.
If a guy was a break-even player, he would make more at 5Dimes. If a break-even player bet on five different 4-1 shots, he would win 1 out of 5. If he bet this at the track, he would break even. If he bet at Pinnacle, he would have a $35 profit because of the rebates. At 5Dimes, he would have a $50 profit from the 10% bonus.
Now let's say the guy was a losing player and he only wins with 1 out of 6 when he bets on 4-1 shots. The guy betting at Pinnacle would lose a total of $58 if he bet $100 to win on six different 4-1 shots and won 1 out of 6. The guy at 5dimes would only lose a total of $50. So even a fairly big losing player would do better at 5Dimes.
The dead-average capper that loses 16% on his money will do better at 5Dimes over the long run. Even if a guy were a terrible handicapper who loses 20% on his money, I think he would still do slightly better at 5Dimes. I think you would probably have to be the worst handicapper in the world and lose well over 30% on your money for 5Dimes to not be a better bet.

[randallscott35]

Some very fair point and I'm willing to consider doing something with them in the future. I am still so happy with Pinnacle, and since the majority of my action is split between matchups and regular horse wagers, I'd prefer to keep the majority of my bankroll in one place. But your thoughts are duly noted.

[Scav]

The matchup thing is key....I would be interested to know what type of overall action they take on those, I bet it is alot