90 Days for Dutrow; ARCI calls for license revocation

[golfer]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Trainers most certainly can be banned for 'drugging' horses, with the most egregious and serious of narcotics, and I know of no jock whose personal drug use resulted in a lifetime ban. As in every case with this topic, generalizations cannot be applied. As has been discussed this week with Migliore, Haskin and Allday, the problem you have, specifically with Rick Dutrrow, is that suddenly saying after the fact that previous history is now part of a new penalty, is patently unfair... The 'double secret probation' mentality.

You want to admonish him and set up a set of ground rules he's required to follow going forward, fine. That's fair. But the way this is being gerrymandered isn't right and won't hold up legally. Even Allday, who has had a very public breakup and fight with Dutrow, said that you better apply the same standards to EVERYONE if you're going to go down this road.

And has been said here before, there's several 'angels with dirty halos' around that get away with as much or more envelope pushing as Rick Dutrow. Would be curious to see the reaction of the public if some of them were dragged out into the spotlight. Dutrow brings a lot of negative focus on himself, but the doctrine of fair play has to be part of whatever attempt there is to provide an atmosphere of integrity in the sport.

Do you think Dutrow invokes "the doctrine of fair play" in his daily activities?
In my opinion, the sport would be better off without Rick Dutrow (and IEAH). I don't believe he should be singled out, they should go after every trainer "pushing the envelope", but you have to start somewhere.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by golfer

Do you think Dutrow invokes "the doctrine of fair play" in his daily activities? In my opinion, the sport would be better off without Rick Dutrow (and IEAH). I don't believe he should be singled out, they should go after every trainer "pushing the envelope", but you have to start somewhere.

That's fine, but start somewhere with an established framework of what constitutes eligibility for license revocation or similar exclusion. Because the inclination to single out individuals based on perceived image isn't right or fair. And more importantly, because it may not be accurate.

I'll reiterate that there are individuals and operations out there doing things far worse than whatever people think Dutrow, or IEAH for that matter, are doing. Those just seem to be convenient pinatas for the public and media and low-hanging fruit for regulators. In the meantime, the wolves in sheep's clothing operate freely.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Kasept

That's fine, but start somewhere with an established framework of what constitutes eligibility for license revocation or similar exclusion. Because the inclination to single out individuals based on perceived image isn't right or fair. And more importantly, because it may not be accurate.

I'll reiterate that there are individuals and operations out there doing things far worse than whatever people think Dutrow, or IEAH for that matter, are doing. Those just seem to be convenient pinatas for the public and media and low-hanging fruit for regulators. In the meantime, the wolves in sheep's clothing operate freely.

There is a well documented framework at play in NYS though most cases come from the Harness side of things.

And I have to disagree that Dutrow is being singled out here. We all talk about the glory years and such but the truth is that when the stewrds ruled with an iron fist there is no doubt in my mind that he would have been sent packing long ago and probably would not have been alone. At some point a standard has to be created and if this is the one, so be it.

I don't know that trainers are afforded the same "rights" other than due process anyway. We are guilty until proven innocent in medication cases and in NY and other jurisdictions are prodded into not contesting suspensions with the threat of additional time or in some cases twice as much time for simpy asking for a hearing. Guilty and more days if you try to prove innocence.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by golfer

Do you think Dutrow invokes "the doctrine of fair play" in his daily activities?

As for this question, I'd say that Dutrow's program tries to take every advantage it can under the rules to get the best performance possible from its' horses. There are dozens of large outfits that operate the exact same way. But its' funny that when those outfits catch medication positives, apologies are made FOR them by the public and media. It's not equitable.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

howie tesher cant wait for this to play out

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Kasept

As for this question, I'd say that Dutrow's program tries to take every advantage it can under the rules to get the best performance possible from its' horses. There are dozens of large outfits that operate the exact same way. But its' funny that when those outfits catch medication positives, apologies are made FOR them by the public and media. It's not equitable.

Owners have no problem in fact demand that such trainers push the enevelope as far it can go without crossing the line.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Owners have no problem in fact demand that such trainers push the enevelope as far it can go without crossing the line.

The million dollar question is: If a substance NOT ILLEGAL then is it LEGAL? If the answer is legal than the sport will always be playing catch-up to the chemists.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by jms62

The million dollar question is: If a substance NOT ILLEGAL then is it LEGAL? If the answer is legal than the sport will always be playing catch-up to the chemists.

And? this is news, or just the way it is. They are banning horses from going into oxygen chambers. The only reason why is because some people cant afford it and some can. Why wouldnt you allow a horse to breathe oxygen whats next you cant give your horse a vitamin or organic supplement because it makes them feel better? Oxygen is now illegal.. Wouldnt want them breathing to much air?

[asudevil]

He's no phuckin good babe. A real low life babe. Not sayin' others aren't the same, babe. He's just no damn good for the game....BABE!!

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Owners have no problem in fact demand that such trainers push the enevelope as far it can go without crossing the line.

Could that be why the attorney whose representing Dutrow has recently worked in-house for Michael Dubb?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

Could that be why the attorney whose representing Dutrow has recently worked in-house for Michael Dubb?

I don't know, all I do know is that Dubb is a savvy real estate developer, and Dutrow is a great horseman. I realize that Dutrow has had a ton of issues and I dodnt condone it but certainly those issues in the past cant be the basis for current punishment unless others of his ilk are treated in the future in kind. It's a slippery slope they are attempting to head down

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by freddymo

I realize that Dutrow has had a ton of issues and I dodnt condone it but certainly those issues in the past cant be the basis for current punishment unless others of his ilk are treated in the future in kind. It's a slippery slope they are attempting to head down

In almost every other area of life, the person's past history forms part of the context for current punishment. For example, a doctor with multiple incidents of malpractice is more likely to get his license revoked by the Department of Health for incompetence than a doctor with an otherwise "clean" record. How is this any different?

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

In almost every other area of life, the person's past history forms part of the context for current punishment. For example, a doctor with multiple incidents of malpractice is more likely to get his license revoked by the Department of Health for incompetence than a doctor with an otherwise "clean" record. How is this any different?

You get a speeding ticket you pay your fine and your license gets points affixed to it. As long as you dont go above a prescribed fig you keep you priviledge to drive. Is there points system in racing? If there was you would have a case otherwise it becomes a subjective circus with lots of room for capricious claims. Getting back to the example above if get 1 speeding ticket for 84mph in a 55 every 15 months you never have more then X pts on your record because every clean year you lose 2 pts.

What are you going to do with Assumssen and Pletcher when they get popped again?