gomez...you suck....

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

well mike i think % does matter. after all you did state the word consistency and a riders% would indicate that wouldnt it? i think velasquez is a good jock i wont dispute that but i dont think hes great. there are a host of other guys i would ride over him or edgar anyday of the week. i think another former based MD rider like edgar himself that would ride edgar right outta his jock is ramon dominguez. edgar has all the physical skills on a horse but when i watch him ride sometimes i really wonder if this guy knows how to read a racing form or not

Velasquez is like Frankel, you have to win the big one. Without the Derby you can never be a true great.

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

Velasquez is like Frankel, you have to win the big one. Without the Derby you can never be a true great.

Oh thats rubbish and nonsense. Mandella, Pletcher,Frankel, etc have never won teh Derby and are great.
The Derby is one race, not the whole year or a career. Thats just nonsense.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Oh thats rubbish and nonsense. Mandella, Pletcher,Frankel, etc have never won teh Derby and are great.
The Derby is one race, not the whole year or a career. Thats just nonsense.

agreed you not only have to have the horse but a tremendous amount of racing luck to win the derby

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

agreed you not only have to have the horse but a tremendous amount of racing luck to win the derby

I guess Baffert, Lukas and Zito got lucky a few times. Some guys just are better at preparing for the big ones (can't get away with certain things in those big ones either).

Originally Posted by Hoisttheflag

I guess Baffert, Lukas and Zito got lucky a few times. Some guys just are better at preparing for the big ones (can't get away with certain things in those big ones either).

I think that some guys aim for it and some don't. Whittingham never did, and had he not won one is his 80's are you telling me he wouldnt have gone down as a great? Get real will you.
And if your criteria is that winning a derby makes you great, then I guess you would place Cam Gambolati ahead of Frankel, pletcher and Mandella. Is thsi not so? After all, according to you he must be better at preparing for the "Big One"!!! Pletcher, Frankel, and Mandella have won over 100 grade ones betweem them I would say that outweighs winning one derby. What a joke.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I think that some guys aim for it and some don't. Whittingham never did, and had he not won one is his 80's are you telling me he wouldnt have gone down as a great? Get real will you.
And if your criteria is that winning a derby makes you great, then I guess you would place Cam Gambolati ahead of Frankel, pletcher and Mandella. Is thsi not so? After all, according to you he must be better at preparing for the "Big One"!!! Pletcher, Frankel, and Mandella have won over 100 grade ones betweem them I would say that outweighs winning one derby. What a joke.

But he did win his derby and that moment put him in the elite of the elite. In fact that race is what he is known for this day. Also, winning a derby doesn't make you great. You can win a derby and not be great, but without one you can't reach the level of immortality that it gives to the winners. Baffert, Zito, Lukas all are a rung above the others because of their derbys. There isn't an honest trainer that would tell you otherwise.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Oh thats rubbish and nonsense. Mandella, Pletcher,Frankel, etc have never won teh Derby and are great.
The Derby is one race, not the whole year or a career. Thats just nonsense.

Unfair, maybe. But that is the reality of it. You can't be put in the elite of the elite unless you win a Kentucky Derby.

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

well mike i think % does matter. after all you did state the word consistency and a riders% would indicate that wouldnt it? i think velasquez is a good jock i wont dispute that but i dont think hes great. there are a host of other guys i would ride over him or edgar anyday of the week. i think another former based MD rider like edgar himself that would ride edgar right outta his jock is ramon dominguez. edgar has all the physical skills on a horse but when i watch him ride sometimes i really wonder if this guy knows how to read a racing form or not

Playa you arent representing the truth in your assertation about Bailey last year. If you are gonna try and bs soemone, make sure it aint me, cause you wont ever get me.
Bailey by his own admission couldnt handle the rigors of everyday riding last year, so he cut his workload and only took high class allowance and stakes races with some Maidens and high priced claimers as well for top clients.
He didn't ride a full slate, so his % would naturally be higher just riding chosen mounts.
Any jock could do that and attain a high %. The guys who ride day in and day out all year long and win the money are the guys who get the awards, period.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

im not trying to BS anybody mike. im well aware bailey had less mounts and didnt ride as much on a daily basis. LOL what do you think bailey's % woulda been if he woulda rode first call for pletcher? and no not any jock could do that. in the races he rode in do you think he was on tons the best hors everytime, you think the horses he ran against were mules compared to his? bailey didnt decline near the end like other recently retired greats like day, mccaron etc etc

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

im not trying to BS anybody mike. im well aware bailey had less mounts and didnt ride as much on a daily basis. LOL what do you think bailey's % woulda been if he woulda rode first call for pletcher? and no not any jock could do that. in the races he rode in do you think he was on tons the best hors everytime, you think the horses he ran against were mules compared to his? bailey didnt decline near the end like other recently retired greats like day, mccaron etc etc

Ok Playa thats why he got SO MANY votes for the eclipse, everyone had it wrong/
Look there was a year or two when Jerry won teh eclipse on the basis of how much money he won riding a couple big horses where other guys had a better overall year. Thats how it works and you know it. The guy who wins the money gets the crown. Its a standard that is used in the industry. Jerry is an announcer now, and I have no idea why he is brought up by you in every discussion about jockeys who ride NOW!!!!!!
Gomez just sent patrons running to the bathroom to vomit with his 1-21 skid this weekend at Belmont.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

ok you dont think the eclipse award voting and process is manipulated. yes of cours eim a huge fan of perfect drift but how the hell wasnt he even a finalist for the award after beating mineshaft who recieved the award and beating congaree who was also nominated, PD only lost 1 race on the dirt that year.

Originally Posted by disappearingdan_akaplaya

ok you dont think the eclipse award voting and process is manipulated. yes of cours eim a huge fan of perfect drift but how the hell wasnt he even a finalist for the award after beating mineshaft who recieved the award and beating congaree who was also nominated, PD only lost 1 race on the dirt that year.

Because Mineshaft only lost one as well, and all his races were big dances. PD took some free passes in smaller events. Its a year long award, not a one race award.
I'm sorry Playa, noone in the country, not one writer or horseman or jockey ever at any time voiced any opinion that Bailey got screwed last year.

[disappearingdan_akaplaya]

i didnt ask why he didnt recieve the eclipse mike im asking why he wasnt a finalist while medags and congaree were. i dont claim 2 know all or whatever but i can careless about what the majority of the turf writers have to say about anything, especially when theyre making opinionated based statements