Champions Who Failed As Stallions

Originally Posted by miraja2

I guess I just have a problem with the way you apply the term "failure." I admire the fact that you are attempting such a comprehensive list and are willing to take the time to argue against those that disagree with you on various points, and like I said in my original response I don't have a big problem with most of the sires you have on your list.
But how many of those other horses on your list sired seven multiple-G1 winners like Affirmed? There simply are not that many multiple-G1 winners out there, and I just don't feel that designating a horse that sires seven of them as a "failure" is exactly fair.
And it isn't like those were his only good runners either. He also sired graded stakes winniners Charley Barley, Buy the Firm, Mossflower, One From Heaven, I Thee Wed, etc. You seem to be saying that there are ONLY two options for a sire:
1) Establishes a dominant male sire line.
2) Failure.

To me it is a bit more complicated than that.
A horse that sires a considerable number of graded stakes winners is.....to me..... NOT a failure.

Please take the time to read all of my posts on this thread.

I identified three measures for evaluating the success of a stallion ... sire of runners, sire of sires, and broodmare sire.

For the "sire of runners" category ... there are several statistics which can be used to evaluate success ... the most important of which are Lifetime Average Earnings Index and %SWs.

For the "sire of sires" category ... it's fairly simple ... how many of the stallions sons meet the criteria for being successful sires of runners? There must ... of course ... be at least one son who is a successful stallion ... preferably three or four or more ... in order to conclude that a stallion was a successful sire of sires.

For the "broodmare sire" category ... there are also several statistics ... including Lifetime AEI of the daughters' runners ... Comparable Index (CI) which measures the earnings of the stallion's children relative to the offspring which the same mares produced with other stallions ... and %SWs from the daughters' children.

If you look up Affirmed's results in these categories ... you'll find that he had minimal success as a sire of runners, and virtually none as a sire of sires ... or as a sire of brodmares.

As much as we all love Affirmed for his brilliance and determination as a race horse ... (I made an Affirmed T-shirt which I wear every year at Saratoga) ... the cold, hard facts tell us beyond a doubt ... that he was unsuccessful as a stallion.