How many top-flight deep closers …

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Gaining Ground

lol...sorry i meant beat better. i think you know what i was asking though. i asked it in my first post. i dont think its even really comparable who beat better. of course zenyatta has a chance to beat better. but racing in california isnt doing anything for her rep.

i thought sunday silence was better.

Yea, we all know those Cali horse suck, the next time one of them ships across the Miss. and wins it will be the first time.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I loved Personal Ensign but even I admit that saying Zenyatta isn't in her class is more than unfair. Yeah, she is getting a puzzling campaign ( again ) but come on.

I dont see how its unfair. Zenyatta could be the best horsey to ever set foot on a racetrack, but when the connections keep putting her in these piss poor races, you just cant get a fair synopsis on her. Even the BCC was extremely weak and on a foreign surface to most of the participants.

If she beats the males, or top females on dirt this year, and wins the BCC again, I will change my tune. So far her only races that haven't been Pepper's Pride-esque (not in terms of actual ability, but quality of races) are the BCC and the previous Oaklawn race.

She could be better than Personal Ensign for all we know.. I'd just like to see it. It doesnt even matter if she loses one or two along the way, she can still prove her greatness.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Who is a better race horse?

Personal Ensign

very debatable

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I dont see how its unfair. Zenyatta could be the best horsey to ever set foot on a racetrack, but when the connections keep putting her in these piss poor races, you just cant get a fair synopsis on her. Even the BCC was extremely weak and on a foreign surface to most of the participants.

If she beats the males, or top females on dirt this year, and wins the BCC again, I will change my tune. So far her only races that haven't been Pepper's Pride-esque (not in terms of actual ability, but quality of races) are the BCC and the previous Oaklawn race.

She could be better than Personal Ensign for all we know.. I'd just like to see it. It doesnt even matter if she loses one or two along the way, she can still prove her greatness.

Breeders Cup distaff, Breeders Cup classic, two Apple Blossoms............are you delusional? Give me the races that Personal Ensign was in?

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Yea, we all know those Cali horse suck, the next time one of them ships across the Miss. and wins it will be the first time.

so you think shes been beating good horses in her california races? that is what i meant. beating those horses again doesnt help her rep.

do you think personal ensign beat better horses in her career than zenyatta has?

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Gaining Ground

so you think shes been beating good horses in her california races? that is what i meant. beating those horses again doesnt help her rep.

do you think personal ensign beat better horses in her career than zenyatta has?

Yes the nod goes to PE on horses to date, but its not this glowing margin that you make it sound like, there have been some quality horses in the past two breeders cups, and she beat a champion horse at Oaklawn.

Life is Sweet aint a crap horse either, she dusted her like a rented mule.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Oh my God.

You're not as familiar with Charlee as some of us are....just ask Clyde.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Breeders Cup distaff, Breeders Cup classic, two Apple Blossoms............are you delusional? Give me the races that Personal Ensign was in?

BC Distaff over Winning Colors (better than anyone in last years BCC or the prior years BC Distaff)

Whitney (beats the crap out of last years BCC)

Beldame (twice)

Shuvee

Molly Pitcher

Maskette

Hempstead

Frizette (at 2)


if you really want to compare those two Apple Blossoms to the 5 female races above, than I will throw that delusional statement right back at ya.


Or what about the whole synthetic issue? I will admit, I hate that fucl<ing surface, so I am biased. The BCC and BC Distaff will always be tainted because of the surface In. my. personal. opinion.

[Gaining Ground]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Yes the nod goes to PE on horses to date, but its not this glowing margin that you make it sound like, there have been some quality horses in the past two breeders cups, and she beat a champion horse at Oaklawn.

Life is Sweet aint a crap horse either, she dusted her like a rented mule.

i dont think its even close. life is sweet is good on one surface, santa anita's pro ride. ginger punch? come on. she was a champion, but how would she have fared against the likes of winning colors or goodbye halo?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Yes the nod goes to PE on horses to date, but its not this glowing margin that you make it sound like, there have been some quality horses in the past two breeders cups, and she beat a champion horse at Oaklawn.

Life is Sweet aint a crap horse either, she dusted her like a rented mule.

She beat one of the most over rated champions in history. Kinda like Favorite Trick winning HOY as a 2yo. She was that kind of champion. Not that its Zenyatta's fault that Ginger Punch was incredibly slow. Zenyatta would have beat GP in 100 out of 100 races.

I know I sound like a Z hater, I'm not, though I do hate the surface she runs on. Just prove her worth by at least running her against males out there. Its just boring.

[blackthroatedwind]

Sorry, but I don't think it's unfair to compare Zenyatta favorably to Personal Ensign. Who the hell knows for sure who was better....but we do know they are both damn good.

The whole Zenyatta thing has gotten distorted for a number of reasons. One, nitwits on the internet ( and this is a big one ). They have annoyed many rational people so much that the sane folk become insane. Two, and this is related, the insistance ( often by the same nitwits ) that she was robbed of HOY despite the obvious has further frustrated sane people ( believe it or not, many sane people who believe Zenyatta is better than Rachel also believe the clear and correct choice was made last year ). Three, her tepid campaign this year, on the heels of last year, has further frustrated many. But this shouldn't mean people should fail to recognize her enormous talent, and further diminish her.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sorry, but I don't think it's unfair to compare Zenyatta favorably to Personal Ensign. Who the hell knows for sure who was better....but we do know they are both damn good.

The whole Zenyatta thing has gotten distorted for a number of reasons. One, nitwits on the internet ( and this is a big one ). They have annoyed many rational people so much that the sane folk become insane. Two, and this is related, the insistance ( often by the same nitwits ) that she was robbed of HOY despite the obvious has further frustrated sane people ( believe it or not, many sane people who believe Zenyatta is better than Rachel also believe the clear and correct choice was made last year ). Three, her tepid campaign this year, on the heels of last year, has further frustrated many. But this shouldn't mean people should fail to recognize her enormous talent, and further diminish her.

I 100% agree with this.

For me, Personal Ensign was the greatest female race horse ever, or tied with another one or two.. I wouldnt put RA or Z or Azeri or anyone in the past 20/25 years near her yet.. Go For Wand would be close though.

Booth Operator and CSC make me not even want to visit the state of California ever again.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I 100% agree with this.

For me, Personal Ensign was the greatest female race horse ever, or tied with another one or two.. I wouldnt put RA or Z or Azeri or anyone in the past 20/25 years near her yet.. Go For Wand would be close though.

Booth Operator and CSC make me not even want to visit the state of California ever again.

How so? I have stated numerous times here I have no problem with Rachel winning HOY, I also never once said Zenyatta could never be beaten. It would seem to me these 2 issues are the reasons why Rachel supporters dislike a certain % of the Pro Zenyatta camp so ferverantly, something I don't believe I should be associated with. I make no bones about it, if the 2 do ever meet, I will root for Zenyatta, but those are my own personal feelings. Just as most here will root for Rachel.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Sorry, but I don't think it's unfair to compare Zenyatta favorably to Personal Ensign. Who the hell knows for sure who was better....but we do know they are both damn good.

The whole Zenyatta thing has gotten distorted for a number of reasons. One, nitwits on the internet ( and this is a big one ). They have annoyed many rational people so much that the sane folk become insane. Two, and this is related, the insistance ( often by the same nitwits ) that she was robbed of HOY despite the obvious has further frustrated sane people ( believe it or not, many sane people who believe Zenyatta is better than Rachel also believe the clear and correct choice was made last year ). Three, her tepid campaign this year, on the heels of last year, has further frustrated many. But this shouldn't mean people should fail to recognize her enormous talent, and further diminish her.

.....best post of the 1,324,000.......

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Yes the nod goes to PE on horses to date, but its not this glowing margin that you make it sound like, there have been some quality horses in the past two breeders cups, and she beat a champion horse at Oaklawn.

Life is Sweet aint a crap horse either, she dusted her like a rented mule.

Give me a break. Even if you like Ginger Punch, it's pretty clear she wasn't herself that day. Unless you think Brownie Points was better than she was, in which case, GP wasn't much of a champion.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

One major reason Personal Ensign may not have been considered for the Classic was that Phipps had a two horse entry of Seeking the Gold, who finished second, and Personal Flag in the race.

Not saying otherwise she would have run but I'm into full disclosure.

Plus it seems it's never really been Shug's MO to run fillies against the boys. I can't think of any (besides PE in the Whitney), but you might remember more than me.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by philcski

Plus it seems it's never really been Shug's MO to run fillies against the boys. I can't think of any (besides PE in the Whitney), but you might remember more than me.

Heavenly Prize ran in the 96 Donn...

My Flag in the 96 Belmont..

Aldiza ran against colts once as a 2yr old..

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by philcski

Plus it seems it's never really been Shug's MO to run fillies against the boys. I can't think of any (besides PE in the Whitney), but you might remember more than me.

While you're basically right, he ran My Flag in the Belmont.

[philcski]

Yes, My Flag... I missed the '96 Belmont...
it was my high school graduation day

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by AlreadyHome

Z is in a class of her own you can't compare her to any1
she the best thing to hit the 21century in HR.
come on, shes Flawless, is not her fault shes beautiful an great an has no competition, she's sent from heaven so enjoy the blessing oF the ULTIMATE ZENYATTA

lmao