Zenyatta v. Rail Trip??

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by Smooth Operator

Nothing stopping the supposed HotY from coming out to test the dual BC champ on 6/13...

Still sore about Zenyatta losing eh?

Why would 2010 HOY Rachel Alexandra want to go run on a different surface than the BC in a meaningless race at a meaningless track. I am sure the connections will run her at a real track like Belmont or Saratoga.

[miraja2]

Although this thread is unfortunately becoming yet another RA-Zenyatta thread, I think the original poster raised an interesting point.
Personally I can't really blame the connections of Zenyatta if they decide they don't want to follow Quality Road and Rachel (and whomever else might emerge this year as a decent runner) all around the country the entire year. Perhaps they figure they have the best horse and so it isn't their job to make a big race happen, particularly after they did their part at Oaklawn earlier in the year.

That's all fine. But when there is a big (and historically significant) race IN SoCal, with a pretty darn good horse running in it, it strikes me as a different matter. They already know there isn't going to be any competition for her from fillies or mares on the synthetic. Everyone knows that. So why not run in the bigger race against the better competition? If they truly want her to be considered an all-time great, running in races like the HGC against a real horse sure seems like a better way to get that done than beating up on a couple of hopelessly overmatched allowance-types.

Not wanting to ship all over the place chasing the top horses in the entire country is one thing. Deciding not to seek out a race against a good horse on your own track is something different.

[letswastemoney]

Cigar's 1995 campaign included all these races. He didn't need to reserve his best race for one big one. He traveled all around the country and took on open company on dirt anywhere.

His only flaw was his disdain for turf surfaces.

Oaklawn Handicap
Gulfstream Park Handicap
Hollywood Gold Cup
Jockey Club Gold Cup
Pimlico Special
Breeders' Cup Classic
Donn Handicap
Massachusetts Handicap
Woodward Stakes

[cmorioles]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Not wanting to ship all over the place chasing the top horses in the entire country is one thing. Deciding not to seek out a race against a good horse on your own track is something different.

The other horses aren't going to chase her to California because of the silly surface they are running on. Like it or not, no other big time racing outside of Keeneland's few weeks each year run on the stuff, and we all know they do it because they sell the stuff.

NYRA...no. Churchill...no. Gulfstream...no. Until Zenyatta beats talented horses on dirt, she'll just be a specialist on a surface that will most likely be gone in a decade.

[10 pnt move up]

I assume its already been stated publicly that they have no interest in running in the Vanity to get the 17th win and then running four weeks later in the Gold Cup? I don't see why that would be such a stretch, in fact it makes a lot of sense. Then they could take off two months and return at Oak Tree and start in the BC.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

The other horses aren't going to chase her to California because of the silly surface they are running on. Like it or not, no other big time racing outside of Keeneland's few weeks each year run on the stuff, and we all know they do it because they sell the stuff.

I understand your point, but I think you do have to give them some credit for their trip to Oaklawn this year. Hopefully she does run in the HGC following her next race, and then comes East to run in a big race. I'd love to see it, and if she does run on dirt against a really good dirt horse, I'll almost certainly be betting against her.
My point was simply that I can't really blame them for wanting to run in Cali for awhile, but IF they stay in Cali but choose not to go in the HGC, that's pretty weak.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I understand your point, but I think you do have to give them some credit for their trip to Oaklawn this year. Hopefully she does run in the HGC following her next race, and then comes East to run in a big race. I'd love to see it, and if she does run on dirt against a really good dirt horse, I'll almost certainly be betting against her.
My point was simply that I can't really blame them for wanting to run in Cali for awhile, but if they stay in Cali but choose not to go in the HGC, that's pretty weak.

Who are the really good 1 1/8th or beyond horses, the only one with any real ability is slated to run four times this year in Quality Road, who else?

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Who are the really good 1 1/8th or beyond horses, the only one with any real ability is slated to run four times this year in Quality Road, who else?

He's only slated to run in the Met Mile and the BC Classic?

He'll be in at least two of the following four preparing for the BCC: Suburban, Whitney, Woodward, Jockey Club Gold Cup.

NT

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

He's only slated to run in the Met Mile and the BC Classic?

He'll be in at least two of the following four preparing for the BCC: Suburban, Whitney, Woodward, Jockey Club Gold Cup.

NT

ok, 5 races then....answer the question, who is this horse I am waiting to bet on as I asked? Cause I dont see much of anything that can run long on dirt.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Who are the really good 1 1/8th or beyond horses, the only one with any real ability is slated to run four times this year in Quality Road, who else?

There sure aren't very many, you're right about that.
Right now I would almost certainly bet on Quality Road and Rachel Alexandra in a dirt race against Zenyatta. Beyond that? Who knows. The 3yo crop sure doesn't look like much, but it is always possible that somebody in the crop (Ice Box? Super Saver? somebody else?) continues to improve and therefore turns into a legitimate 9f+ horse.

[knickslions2]

Originally Posted by miraja2

There sure aren't very many, you're right about that.
Right now I would almost certainly bet on Quality Road and Rachel Alexandra in a dirt race against Zenyatta. Beyond that? Who knows. The 3yo crop sure doesn't look like much, but it is always possible that somebody in the crop (Ice Box? Super Saver? somebody else?) continues to improve and therefore turns into a legitimate 9f+ horse.

Rachel is toast. Her last race last year cooked her. Can't believe people doubt a horse that has never lost. Don't care if she was running on glass. QR would be a good race but we may never see it

[rgustafson]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Who are the really good 1 1/8th or beyond horses, the only one with any real ability is slated to run four times this year in Quality Road, who else?

I believe that there is one other older horse besides Quality Road, who, if he stays healthy, could be a real threat at these longer distances. That horse is Battle Plan, also trained by Pletcher. Anyone know what race he is pointing to next?

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Why would 2010 HOY Rachel Alexandra want to go run on a different surface than the BC in a meaningless race at a meaningless track.

Oh I don't know … maybe cuz she's lost a TON of street cred … and beating an UNDEFEATED DUAL BC CHAMPION at her home track would go a LONG way in restoring her tarnished reputation.

I am sure the connections will run her at a real track like Belmont or Saratoga.

And she'll probably get beat there too...

[the_fat_man]

We're facing the very real possibility here that Z will go undefeated. There's really nothing that can beat her on synthetics (on the west coast) in a fairly run race, and, unless the male older dirt division finds a new star, that can go 10F, she'll dust anything out there presently in the BC. I mean, Rail Trip could hook her in a very small field and control the pace and somehow beat her. It's possible, what with his new jock and all. It's doubtful, however, that even if Pletcher were to go over the border and get some of that even more special Jordan elixir for QR, that he'd get 10F out of him on a non speed favoring track.
And, I don't see how RA makes it back in the picture at the moment.

It's slowly and steadily becoming a reality for her detractors that she just might prove them all wrong. Imagine that so many who have otherwise very strong opinions could be so wrong about this horse. Imagine 20 years from now DrugS Jr. is on some forum comparing horses historically using Beyers: what does he do with her?

Or Mike the EUNUCH going to his grave muttering: "she never ran FAST, so she was never any good. RA was better."

All of this is deliciously wicked.

[CSC]

All she has to do is face a horse this year that beyers 119 in a race so that she can beyer 120 to make Drugs happy, maybe he will even admit he was wrong. We are still waiting on his explanation of what went wrong with Rachel here on DT. That should be illuminating...

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by CSC

All she has to do is face a horse this year that beyers 119 in a race so that she can beyer 120 to make Drugs happy, maybe he will even admit he was wrong. We are still waiting on his explanation of what went wrong with Rachel here on DT. That should be illuminating...

Something went wrong with RA? She's still running > 100 Beyers, isn't she? Which means she still FASTER than Z (and thus better).

I don't know what you're talking about, Willis.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Something went wrong with RA? She's still running > 100 Beyers, isn't she? Which means she still FASTER than Z (and thus better).

I don't know what you're talking about, Willis.

you forgot the one about where she can't beat rail trip. i heard shes ducking him because hes so good . someone on here is talking about facts. how about the fact that the whole idea of this thread is "factless". rail trip is scaring them away now....wait a minute , who did not show up in arkansas last month?

[miraja2]

I am pretty far from being a big Zenyatta fan, but comparing her to that stupid, worthless, piece-of-crap, New Mexico horse - even in jest - is just going way too far.
Zenyatta's connections did make two different attempts to run their horse against the best out there: the BCC and the Apple Blossom. In one instance she ran against the worst BCC field ever on her preferred surface, and in the other one nobody ended up showing up to run against her. Those are hardly the connections' fault.

I actually still like Zenyatta....despite her ardent fans' inadvertent attempts to force me to root for her to lose (just so they will shut the hell up).

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

you forgot the one about where she can't beat rail trip. i heard shes ducking him because hes so good . someone on here is talking about facts. how about the fact that the whole idea of this thread is "factless". rail trip is scaring them away now....wait a minute , who did not show up in arkansas last month?

rail trip??

thing is, much as zenyatta has done, you have to admit she hasn't done it vs much, and that better races could have been found to showcase her amazing talents. if you want all the marbles, you have to go after them-they haven't. most of her races have been vs suspect competition. yes, she raced what showed up, but she only went out of her usual restricted competition once. why not again? i'm hoping once they break the winning streak, and one assumes she will (i posted once, some time back that maybe she'd stay around long enough to do so), that they try something different again.

[Smooth Operator]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Imagine 20 years from now DrugS Jr. is on some forum comparing horses historically using Beyers: what does he do with her?

Lol … too funny



Must be boatloads of RA lovers out there who want to see Z slip up SOOOOOOOOO bad


I'm enjoying this TO THE FULL.