Oak Tree renames the Lady's Secret the Zenyatta

[CSC]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Please look stuff up beforehand.

Lady's Secret nearly took the entire La Canada series at SA, and also won the Santa Margarita.

The only reason people shouldn't care about the switch is that the Lady's Secret Handicap was created solely as a prep for the Breeder's Cup back in '95 I think, so while the horse's name is quite historic the race itself is not.

Okay I stand corrected, I should have stated of her major wins only the Distaff was at SA. The rest were at various tracks, but the point was and wouldn't you agree that from a historical standpoint Z's accomplishments were better at SA than LS and this is in no way disrespecting LS as a racemare, we all know she was one of the alltime greats.

Moccasin Stakes (1984)
The Darley Test (1985)
Ballerina Handicap (1985)
Monmouth Regret Stakes (1985)
Ruffian Handicap (1985, 1986)
Beldame Stakes (1985, 1986)
Maskette Handicap (1985, 1986)
Whitney Handicap (1986)
Molly Pitcher Handicap (1986)
Shuvee Handicap (1986)
Breeders' Cup wins:
Breeders' Cup Distaff (1986)

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by CSC

Okay I stand corrected, I should have stated of her major wins only the Distaff was at SA. The rest were at various tracks, but the point was and wouldn't you agree that from a historical standpoint Z's accomplishments were better at SA than LS and this is in no way disrespecting LS as a racemare, we all know she was one of the alltime greats.

Moccasin Stakes (1984)
The Darley Test (1985)
Ballerina Handicap (1985)
Monmouth Regret Stakes (1985)
Ruffian Handicap (1985, 1986)
Beldame Stakes (1985, 1986)
Maskette Handicap (1985, 1986)
Whitney Handicap (1986)
Molly Pitcher Handicap (1986)
Shuvee Handicap (1986)
Breeders' Cup wins:
Breeders' Cup Distaff (1986)

So now the Santa Margarita and La Canada are not major wins? They're both marquee events at the SA winter meet. Nice backslide.

Geez, what are Zenyatta's big wins outside the BC races?

Guess what? The El Encino is the 2nd leg of the La Canada series, and LS won that too, anyways.

As mentioned previously, the Lady's Secret Hcp is strictly a prep created for the BC.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

So now the Santa Margarita and La Canada are not major wins? They're both marquee events at the SA winter meet. Nice backslide.

Geez, what are Zenyatta's big wins outside the BC races?

Guess what? The El Encino is the 2nd leg of the La Canada series, and LS won that too, anyways.

As mentioned previously, the Lady's Secret Hcp is strictly a prep created for the BC.

Not a backslide, the page I went to listed LS's major wins so my error was and I admitted to it (they didn't list La Canada as a major win) was I didn't dig further for her entire race record.

BTW The La Canada & El Encino Stakes are rated as grade 2 races and the Lady's Secret is a grade 1, The question was which horse has been more influential at SA and I think when you look at their records at SA you can only come up with one horse.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

As mentioned previously, the Lady's Secret Hcp is strictly a prep created for the BC.

BTW this is an opinion, you can say this about the Jockey Gold Cup also. Does it tarnish this race because of it's timing of the race? Judging by your reasoning for the LS, it would.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

BTW this is an opinion, you can say this about the Jockey Gold Cup also. Does it tarnish this race because of it's timing of the race? Judging by your reasoning for the LS, it would.

Terrible comparison. The Lady's Secret was created specifically as a prep for the BC. The JCGC was the BC before 25 years ago.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Terrible comparison. The Lady's Secret was created specifically as a prep for the BC. The JCGC was the BC before 25 years ago.

But what race a month or 2 months before the BC isn't a prep today, it is unfair to single out The LS, that is why there is a grading system in place. Regardless Zenyatta has won 4 grade 1's at SA, 2 at the highest possible level, one with massive historically impact, LS has only won 1 at the highest level. If one is impartial that is still 1 better than LS even giving her the benefit of the doubt of The La Canada series that Rollo wants to give her.

[RolloTomasi]

The La Canada and Santa Margarita were Grade 1s when Ladys Secret won them.

[RolloTomasi]

By the way this 'highest level' BS being exclusive to BC races is exactly what is wrong with racing.

Suddenly other Grade 1s aren't as important. I guess we'll have to rethink our assessments of Skywalker, Success Express, Arcangues, etc.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

The La Canada and Santa Margarita were Grade 1s when Ladys Secret won them.

Yes good work but you should have also mentioned one of the races you cited was only a Grade 3 The El Encino and not it's present grade 2 status to make it excellent work.

Not to mention The La Canada was so good that it was eventually downgraded to a Grade 2, my original point was Zenyatta's BC Distaff, 2 LS's and BC Classic wins are more impressive any way you cut it than LS's Santa Margarita, El Encino, La Canada and BC Distaff wins. I am neither agreeing or disagreeing whether I agree with the name change but when you stack Z's SA record against LS's the decision to recognize her it was a good one. Whether this was the race to do it in is anyone's guess.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by CSC

But what race a month or 2 months before the BC isn't a prep today, it is unfair to single out The LS, that is why there is a grading system in place. Regardless Zenyatta has won 4 grade 1's at SA, 2 at the highest possible level, one with massive historically impact, LS has only won 1 at the highest level. If one is impartial that is still 1 better than LS even giving her the benefit of the doubt of The La Canada series that Rollo wants to give her.

You're missing the point. It's about the historical significance of the race. Rollo's point was that the Lady's Secret was created solely as a BC prep, whereas the JCGC has been around for a million years and used to be the equivalent of the BCC. We're not talking about what the races mean TODAY (although the JCGC still dwarfs the LS today).

[brianwspencer]

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Still with the throwing $hit against the wall, hoping against all hope that something actually sticks.

Unfortunately, not everybody on this board is a total moron, so the wild inaccuracies, dishonest backpedalling, and fingers crossed while making a losing case just doesn't fly quite as well here as it does with the drunks at the OTB where someone like CSC may be able to just lie through his teeth and come off as awfully smart since nobody knows any better to just say STFU you're in over your head with this one.

Solid work again, Rollo.