Hall of Fame? Yes or No

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I don't watch any baseball hardly ever - but wasn't Guerrero like a freak in Montreal?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I don't watch any baseball hardly ever - but wasn't Guerrero like a freak in Montreal?

Injuries ruined his chances. He didn't hit much at all in the 2005 post. So, fk him. No real effort to get a ring, either. Too ugly for photos, too. No plate discipline (which would easily of gotten one of his teams a ring.)

[Gander]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Injuries ruined his chances. He didn't hit much at all in the 2005 post. So, fk him. No real effort to get a ring, either. Too ugly for photos, too. No plate discipline (which would easily of gotten one of his teams a ring.)

He still has time. Cant blame me for hoping. Stranger things have happened.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Gander

He still has time. Cant blame me for hoping. Stranger things have happened.

Times run out. His swing looks like he should of retired last year.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Jones ever been caught enhancing?

[randallscott35]

Ichiro the only one on there I would vote for.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Ichiro the only one on there I would vote for.

How can you not vote for Chipper Jones, besides the fact you love the Mets (and so does Chipper)?

Him along with Ichiro are locks to me. First ballots.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Gander

How can you not vote for Chipper Jones, besides the fact you love the Mets (and so does Chipper)?

Him along with Ichiro are locks to me. First ballots.

Seriously? I don't think Chipper is a HOF. No Met issue at all.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Seriously? I don't think Chipper is a HOF. No Met issue at all.

What hasnt he done that would keep him out? His numbers are big and his consistency and longevity amazing. He doesnt have the Cal Ripken streak but he hasnt missed much time. He hits for power and avearge and has hardly had any really off years. His fielding is excellent.

[santana]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Ichiro the only one on there I would vote for.

He is a no brainer on my list....greatest contact hitter,,,

[brockguy]

I went to see Seattle play in 2007 just after the all star break and was delighted to finally see Ichiro play. He had just gotten MVP for the all star game and in the 2 games I went to, he went 0-9 Never saw him get on base!!!

[GBBob]

Thome should and will make it. A shame he had no ring, but with those numbers, longevity, no 'roids and his great character..he'll be there

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GBBob

Thome should and will make it. A shame he had no ring, but with those numbers, longevity, no 'roids and his great character..he'll be there

We assume. While I generally agree, FWIW, the fact is that the era that he played in was a perfect fit for him. Any other era and there is no way he plays that long or has those numbers. Despite the fact that he seems like a great guy and all that it is hard not to wonder about one dimensional power guys like Thome. Virtually every one of his peers with similar numbers have been tainted.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

We assume. While I generally agree, FWIW, the fact is that the era that he played in was a perfect fit for him. Any other era and there is no way he plays that long or has those numbers. Despite the fact that he seems like a great guy and all that it is hard not to wonder about one dimensional power guys like Thome. Virtually every one of his peers with similar numbers have been tainted.

He also played on a lot of very good teams surrounded by good hitters....very hard to pitch around him.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Jones ever been caught enhancing?

I dont think so, just excessive chewing tobacco use which is almost as common as steroids but not quite.

[2Hot4TV]

QUOTE=Cannon Shell]Assuming they finish as expected.

Ichiro Big, A BIG yes for hitting it where they anit, work ethic and character.

Vlad Guerrero, NO

Jim Thome, NO

John Smoltz, yes

Johnny Damon, NO

Trevor Hoffman, Yes

Todd Helton, NO

Chipper Jones, too early

Bobby Abreu, NO

Gary Sheffield, NO

Miguel Tejada, NO

Andy Pettite, NO

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Injuries ruined his chances. He didn't hit much at all in the 2005 post. So, fk him. No real effort to get a ring, either. Too ugly for photos, too. No plate discipline (which would easily of gotten one of his teams a ring.)

Sometimes you say some intersting things but sometimes you are so far off base its like you just came back from the methadone clinic.

No effort to get a ring? No plate discipline? Over Guerrero's career he averaged 76 K's a year (which is a very small amount for a power hitter) in an average of 685 plate appearances. He also averaged 197 hits over that same time.

His lifetime batting average is .321. His .568 slg % is 14th all-time. He has 7 silver slugger awards (other OF with 7 or more, Bonds, Ramirez, Gwynn, and Griffey). He has an MVP award and 4 other top 6 finishes. He is 5th alltime in intentional walks, leading the league 5 times. He has 407 HR's. He has 2250 hits. He has led the league in hits, runs and total bases.

All this in 13 seasons.

Baseball reference has a breakdown of stats called a similarity score adjusted by year, era, etc. Guerrero's most similar hitters by year? Willie Mays, Manny Ramirez and Duke Snider.

Yeah I think the results of three games in 2005 should trump that.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Sometimes you say some intersting things but sometimes you are so far off base its like you just came back from the methadone clinic.

No effort to get a ring? No plate discipline? Over Guerrero's career he averaged 76 K's a year (which is a very small amount for a power hitter) in an average of 685 plate appearances. He also averaged 197 hits over that same time.

His lifetime batting average is .321. His .568 slg % is 14th all-time. He has 7 silver slugger awards (other OF with 7 or more, Bonds, Ramirez, Gwynn, and Griffey). He has an MVP award and 4 other top 6 finishes. He is 5th alltime in intentional walks, leading the league 5 times. He has 407 HR's. He has 2250 hits. He has led the league in hits, runs and total bases.

All this in 13 seasons.

Baseball reference has a breakdown of stats called a similarity score adjusted by year, era, etc. Guerrero's most similar hitters by year? Willie Mays, Manny Ramirez and Duke Snider.

Yeah I think the results of three games in 2005 should trump that.

During 10 games of the 2005 post, he hit .184, and had just 1 rbi. The Halos had a shot to beat the Chisox that year, but this guy came up totally useless. He has had a decent post this year. He has 2 doubles. That gives your HOFamer a grand total of 3 post season doubles in his career. He has had a home run this post season. That now gives him a grand total of 2 post season home runs. Even with a nice post season in 2009, the guy has a total of 5 career post season extra-base hits. Sorry, but I am more scoreboard than you. They got him to help them get a ring. What did he do for them in the post of 2004, 2005, 2007, and 2008? He got 2 extra base hits in 75 post season at bats. No, I wouldn't vote for him, but I can see where fantasy playing types would. If he had retired at the end of last year, would you have voted for him to go into the HOF with 2 extra base hits in 75 post season at bats? Just wondering. He's incredibly talented, but he's just about as stupid as they come. If he would have made any effort at all to stop swinging at pitchers pitches (out of the zone,) then he would of been incredible. This is a player that you respect less the more you watch him. I have seen plenty of this guy. I told ya I saw almost every Halo game in the 2nd half in 2006. He swings at sht, and grounds out n' pops up. That's probably why this individual hit .262 with men in scoring position this year. He's has the opposite of the Phil's plate game plan. To be honest, he has the talent to hit .362 with men in scoring position. All that swinging at sht adds up. Yea, he may not strike out that much, but he grounds out/pops out on pitcher's pitches (a lot.) You think I just randomly don't like the guy? That is reserved for Ichiro. I plead guilty of bias against that dude. He bores me to dozing. Really, when that guy gets on base, I'm like "how did Ichiro get on? I missed it." At least Ichiro is a good defensive player. Guerrero was horrible on D.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

During 10 games of the 2005 post, he hit .184, and had just 1 rbi. The Halos had a shot to beat the Chisox that year, but this guy came up totally useless. He has had a decent post this year. He has 2 doubles. That gives your HOFamer a grand total of 3 post season doubles in his career. He has had a home run this post season. That now gives him a grand total of 2 post season home runs. Even with a nice post season in 2009, the guy has a total of 5 career post season extra-base hits. Sorry, but I am more scoreboard than you. They got him to help them get a ring. What did he do for them in the post of 2004, 2005, 2007, and 2008? He got 2 extra base hits in 75 post season at bats. No, I wouldn't vote for him, but I can see where fantasy playing types would. If he had retired at the end of last year, would you have voted for him to go into the HOF with 2 extra base hits in 75 post season at bats? Just wondering. He's incredibly talented, but he's just about as stupid as they come. If he would have made any effort at all to stop swinging at pitchers pitches (out of the zone,) then he would of been incredible. This is a player that you respect less the more you watch him. I have seen plenty of this guy. I told ya I saw almost every Halo game in the 2nd half in 2006. He swings at sht, and grounds out n' pops up. That's probably why this individual hit .262 with men in scoring position this year. He's has the opposite of the Phil's plate game plan. To be honest, he has the talent to hit .362 with men in scoring position. All that swinging at sht adds up. Yea, he may not strike out that much, but he grounds out/pops out on pitcher's pitches (a lot.) You think I just randomly don't like the guy? That is reserved for Ichiro. I plead guilty of bias against that dude. He bores me to dozing. Really, when that guy gets on base, I'm like "how did Ichiro get on? I missed it." At least Ichiro is a good defensive player. Guerrero was horrible on D.

Like I said, sometimes your logic is mindboggling.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Like I said, sometimes your logic is mindboggling.

Do you know how easy it is for one to do what you just did? Anyone can can state a totally unsubstantiated charge or accusation against a person. This is so common on here, because it's quick n' easy. You say my logic is mindboggling. That's an effort to distract, and not have to respond to the facts I used. It's a smear. When people disagree with someone, the adult thing to do is simply say you disagree, and respond to the evidence the person used to explain their point of view, or give more evidence in support of your opinion. I don't know why you can't just say you feel your evidence is the more important evidence (instead of attacking someone with a vague accusation.) I gave you a point of view. You stated the facts to support your opinion. I gave the facts supporting my opinion. I respected your opinion, and the facts you supported it with. I don't consider it mindboggling to think a HOF candidate with 108 post season at bats should have more than 5 extra base hits in the post.