forget Summer Bird for a minute. Who Was Better Dunkirk or Mine That Bird?

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Is Summer Bird the new Jazil?

I think Summer Bird will prove to be a better horse than Jazil.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by CSC

I think Summer Bird will prove to be a better horse than Jazil.

I think Summer Bird is better at 9 furlongs or less, Jazil is better at 10 furlongs or more.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I think Summer Bird is better at 9 furlongs or less, Jazil is better at 10 furlongs or more.

Jazil only won 2 career races out of 11, I still remember him retiring off of a failed allowance race, just as Monarchos had. I believe the question's intentions were to ask is this a one off..I don't think it was. This horse still has an upside.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by CSC

Jazil only won 2 career races out of 11, I still remember him retiring off of a failed allowance race, just as Monarchos had. I believe the question's intentions were to ask is this a one off..I don't think it was. This horse still has an upside.

yes, basically I was asking if people thought he'd be a one hit wonder at 12 furlongs like our favorite horse, Jazil.

[Bobby Fischer]

I like Summer Bird. I actually think he will be tough in the 9 and 10 furlong races. I don't know that he is super talented but he could do really well in this division simply by getting the distance and grinding home in the stretch. If Quality Road or Rachel don't partake in a race, stamina could be enough many times...

I also think Summer Bird was best in the Belmont. However that could easily be an optical illusion as several have argued that Mine That Bird or even Dunkirk had rough trips as far as the flow of the race.
Nice youtube replay - I like the way Summer Bird looks from 200 - 100 yards out. Of course the flow of the race helps greatly here as well.

I think it is a lot safer to say Mine That Bird or Summer Bird. SB didn't have to change a thing, and MTB simply had to wait longer to move...

With Dunkirk it really gets hypothetical... we are asking for a whole different approach - patience from the gate, maybe getting shuffled back a little inside traffic, settling back off the pace with Summer Bird and Chocolate Candy and last-moving with Summer Bird. - Who knows if all that is even possible? And then we have a fracture as well to complicate things...

[horseofcourse]

I would say Mine That Bird ran better than Dunkirk. Having a much wider trip and all. Here are the quarter splits I came up with in the race for the top 3....
I'm sure they're off, but not too much.

Summer Bird:

24.18
23.72

50.98 (second half mile)
23.46
25.20

Dunkirk:

23.41
23.72
25.30
25.43
24.16
26.06

Mine That Bird:

25.28
23.38

50.13 (second half mile)
22.87
26.39

I guess the argument is...was Dunkirk's 23.41 first quarter more taxing than Mine That Bird running the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th quarters significantly faster than Dunkirk. Plus he took a much wider path the whole way. I don't think it's much of an argument.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

I think Summer Bird is better at 9 furlongs or less, Jazil is better at 10 furlongs or more.

What exactly are you basing this on?

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

What exactly are you basing this on?

Performance and speed figures. Both had one race at 10 furlongs and one at 12 furlongs on the dirt. Jazil was faster in both on speed figures and was 1st/4th in those races as opposed to 1st/6th for Summer Bird. There's no reasonable metric that puts Summer Bird ahead from 10 furlongs and on.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

Performance and speed figures. Both had one race at 10 furlongs and one at 12 furlongs on the dirt. Jazil was faster in both on speed figures and was 1st/4th in those races as opposed to 1st/6th for Summer Bird. There's no reasonable metric that puts Summer Bird ahead from 10 furlongs and on.

Big sample size. . .

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Big sample size. . .

As opposed to the sample of zero that suggests Summer Bird is better?

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

As opposed to the sample of zero that suggests Summer Bird is better?

I wouldn't suggest either is better because it's irrelevant and unknowable - especially considering that Summer Bird has run exactly five times. Just seems like a silly discussion to me. . . but carry on. What was Jazil's beyer in the Belmont?