Jon v Andy

[mclem0822]

Originally Posted by kgar311

Hes an IDIOT

Look, just because you have a different opinion than the guy does not make him an idiot! This guy works hours and hours, he's a freakin machine of knowledge about racing which I very much appreciate. Yes the constant POTN stuff gets annoying, he may be dead wrong here, but he is not an idiot. I have alot of respect for Jon White, and the contributations he brings to ATR.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by mclem0822

Look, just because you have a different opinion than the guy does not make him an idiot! This guy works hours and hours, he's a freakin machine of knowledge about racing which I very much appreciate. Yes the constant POTN stuff gets annoying, he may be dead wrong here, but he is not an idiot. I have alot of respect for Jon White, and the contributations he brings to ATR.

Jon White is pretty solid IMO, he may be dead ass wrong here but that does not change a lifes work as a professional handicapper and gambler.

I know its hard to believe but even the great Serling once said IWR was a mediocrity, of course it was at that point I started searching out futures

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

Jon White is pretty solid IMO, he may be dead ass wrong here but that does not change a lifes work as a professional handicapper and gambler.

I know its hard to believe but even the great Serling once said IWR was a mediocrity, of course it was at that point I started searching out futures

professional handicapper and gambler? i don't think hes either one. hes not an idiot but any gambler worth a dime never talks like its a sure thing. thats rule number one and why they call it gambling. i love when people come on here and on tv or the paper and talk a horse up so much thats its freakin batman , spiderman and wonder woman all tied up in one. it always tells me to look around. they all lose at one time and its best when the odds are short and everyone is talking "cinch". i've been gambling for a long time and horses rarely, rarely go undefeated or live up to all the crap talk. my biggest days have come at the expense of easy goer, smarty jones and big brown. when someone comes up with a system of "sure things" let me know. i sure don't think this guy has one !

[santana]

I certainly respect Andys selections....Mr White ?I am not so sure about, but in the end, make your own picks. That is what this game is about, your own selections.
I am putting POTN in my bets, if i happen to bet the race by itself. But usually if i am live in the ik 3 or 4, i wont bet the race. But POTN will be in the pik wagers along with a couple of others..
I am pretty sure he will be in the mix.

[cowgirlintexas]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

professional handicapper and gambler? i don't think hes either one. hes not an idiot but any gambler worth a dime never talks like its a sure thing. thats rule number one and why they call it gambling. i love when people come on here and on tv or the paper and talk a horse up so much thats its freakin batman , spiderman and wonder woman all tied up in one. it always tells me to look around. they all lose at one time and its best when the odds are short and everyone is talking "cinch". i've been gambling for a long time and horses rarely, rarely go undefeated or live up to all the crap talk. my biggest days have come at the expense of easy goer, smarty jones and big brown. when someone comes up with a system of "sure things" let me know. i sure don't think this guy has one !

Well said

[sdjcom]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

professional handicapper and gambler? i don't think hes either one. hes not an idiot but any gambler worth a dime never talks like its a sure thing. thats rule number one and why they call it gambling. i love when people come on here and on tv or the paper and talk a horse up so much thats its freakin batman , spiderman and wonder woman all tied up in one. it always tells me to look around. they all lose at one time and its best when the odds are short and everyone is talking "cinch". i've been gambling for a long time and horses rarely, rarely go undefeated or live up to all the crap talk. my biggest days have come at the expense of easy goer, smarty jones and big brown. when someone comes up with a system of "sure things" let me know. i sure don't think this guy has one !

let me know where you found in print or on ATR JW said a sure thing, he never said that, he has said he thinks POTN will win TC, but said to steve this past week nothing is for sure.

The fewer definitive staments you make,
the more careful you are,
the better you look in the long run.
Venturing with bold, broad statements
is a set up for inaccuracy. And if one is
inaccurate often enough in the games these
two play... Well that is risky for people that cannot
handle being wrong.

Elimination of certain options is important. But it is also
much easier than picking the correct option that was
not part of popular opinion, or had many skeptics
before an event plays out.

We have an example of careful v. "to hell with it" bold.

[johnny pinwheel]

Originally Posted by sdjcom

let me know where you found in print or on ATR JW said a sure thing, he never said that, he has said he thinks POTN will win TC, but said to steve this past week nothing is for sure.

c'mon did you listen to this guy? seriously? the triple crown has not been won in 30 years. he made it sound like a walk in the park for this horse. i have my doubts about him even winning one of them. like most of these guys he is not a professional gambler. hes a guy with a forum about racing, more like a tout. a real gambler would never make these statements when not knowing whose in the races, the track conditions etc. and this clown is talking triple crown a week before the first leg. it sounds like some of you guys...lol. i read a post about someone with the brillant idea of playing rachel alexandra in oaks /derby double...wow, how original only half the world will be doing that move. of coarse i'll use her but i'll have tickets in that double without her too. if she loses i'm sure there will be thread about the terrible ride she got. thats how these things work. i've been horseplaying for a long time, nothing really surprises me anymore. sure everyone loves a hero but folks build these horses up and even better wager their money on short priced "monsters" only to have their wallets and hearts broken by following jokers like this. when i like a horse i bet it. there are very few "world beaters" in this game. to make money its the first lesson to learn. he was so overboard its hard to even fake credibility. can this horse win? possibly. a triple crown? maybe. would i state this publicly and bet on it now? never in a million years!!!!

[jms62]

You need to take the TC talk in Stride. He is in the media business. If an absolute miracle happens and he calls it right and POTN wins the triple crown, JW will be remembered forever for making the ballsy call and gain a ton of cred. If POTN doesn't win then he can say I guess he didn't take to the dirt and everyone will forget he even mentioned it in a few months. Not alot of risk with huge career upside if he is correct.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by jms62

You need to take the TC talk in Stride. He is in the media business. If an absolute miracle happens and he calls it right and POTN wins the triple crown, JW will be remembered forever for making the ballsy call and gain a ton of cred. If POTN doesn't win then he can say I guess he didn't take to the dirt and everyone will forget he even mentioned it in a few months. Not alot of risk with huge career upside if he is correct.

One of the new pieces of info from Thorograph this year is the concept that synthetic on dirt performances that are new tops tend to be one and done almost without fail. It doesn't mean a regression for a subsequent start is not enough to win a second in a row but the bottom falls out by the third hence very it is very unlikely by these stats that a triple crown from POTN is to follow even if he does win Saturday. Interestingly enough TGH is playing against IWR to win for the same reasons. The third on dirt after a synthetic base is supposed to be a Big Brown Belmont according to their research this year. The multimedia package is $15 bucks for the Derby and Oaks and is really a great watch/read this year.

[sdjcom]

Originally Posted by johnny pinwheel

c'mon did you listen to this guy? seriously? the triple crown has not been won in 30 years. he made it sound like a walk in the park for this horse. i have my doubts about him even winning one of them. like most of these guys he is not a professional gambler. hes a guy with a forum about racing, more like a tout. a real gambler would never make these statements when not knowing whose in the races, the track conditions etc. and this clown is talking triple crown a week before the first leg. it sounds like some of you guys...lol. i read a post about someone with the brillant idea of playing rachel alexandra in oaks /derby double...wow, how original only half the world will be doing that move. of coarse i'll use her but i'll have tickets in that double without her too. if she loses i'm sure there will be thread about the terrible ride she got. thats how these things work. i've been horseplaying for a long time, nothing really surprises me anymore. sure everyone loves a hero but folks build these horses up and even better wager their money on short priced "monsters" only to have their wallets and hearts broken by following jokers like this. when i like a horse i bet it. there are very few "world beaters" in this game. to make money its the first lesson to learn. he was so overboard its hard to even fake credibility. can this horse win? possibly. a triple crown? maybe. would i state this publicly and bet on it now? never in a million years!!!!

For me the derby is just for your pick. the other races i will bet for profit,but i and i'm sure many others make a derby pick and enjoy it no matter who wins. playing rachel A is ok she is becoming a crowd favorite and a pleasure to watch. people bet her for the novelty of a super filly, and know they won't make any money, hell at the track many do not cash the ticket but keep as a
momento. nobody on DT forum thinks any of these things are true such as a sure thing. you think your opinion is right and everybody else is stupid, don't you have a nice thing to say about anyone, sounds like you are miserable,chill and bet , and win all of us loser's money.

[CSC]

Even if POTN doesn't win the derby will it really resolve anything? He may not win because he is not fast enough, not because of the surface.

[kgar311]

Originally Posted by mclem0822

Look, just because you have a different opinion than the guy does not make him an idiot! This guy works hours and hours, he's a freakin machine of knowledge about racing which I very much appreciate. Yes the constant POTN stuff gets annoying, he may be dead wrong here, but he is not an idiot. I have alot of respect for Jon White, and the contributations he brings to ATR.

Hes a wealth of knowledge...GREAT! this is his job, his field if work. I have knowledge also and dont even put in a fraction of time into it. If you are a so called expert its really not what you know or can recite about what happened in the past. In my book its about making smart decisions in future races and knowing all the angles. To come out and say something like POTN is not only going to win the Derby but win the whole damn triple crown is pretty IDIOTIC in my book. In no way shape or form does he have any solid evidence or prior history to go by that can support anything he says. Experts dont shoot off at the hip they are normally supported by evidence or fact which there is none here.