Mark Jackson and Van Gundy...

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That East /West thing rings hollow, it isn't as though they havent had talent surrounding Nash.

I just have always been amazed how a wave of consenus echos through sports when talking about things like MVP and such. That wave and a few stupid stats have made Nash into a legend and he hardly deserves that company. I just think that if he was black that Nash would be thought of along the lines of a Billups (who is a good player but no one is putting him on any alltime teams). He is a guy who was in the right place at the right time in the perfect system with the right parts. Having mobile big men like Marion, Stoudamire and even Diaw has helped him immensely and he can hit an open jumper. But I dont know that he is really a better point guard than Maurice Cheeks.

Chris Paul is already a better player than Nash at Nash's peak.

I think it is more the wow factor than being white.
Nash made some incredible passes and clutch plays. Really, when you
look at the playoff games they lost, Nash was one of the few
that did not choke on those Phoenix teams(when not hurt). Nash is clearly way beyond his peak imo... so its kinda easy to diss him now.

John Stockton's assists were as numerous as Nash, they just
were not as flashy. I also think Nash snuck in at the right times for MVP.

You like like Marion much more than I ever did. He put up great numbers, but in the playoffs, it was a pleasure to see him on the floor against the Spurs. Marion is a big time choke imo.

I also think the black/white thing goes in the other direction also.
Heck, I know it does. Everyone forgets how great Jack Sikma was

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I think it is more the wow factor than being white.
Nash made some incredible passes and clutch plays. Really, when you
look at the playoff games they lost, Nash was one of the few
that did not choke on those Phoenix teams(when not hurt). Nash is clearly way beyond his peak imo... so its kinda easy to diss him now.

John Stockton's assists were as numerous as Nash, they just
were not as flashy. I also think Nash snuck in at the right times for MVP.

You like like Marion much more than I ever did. He put up great numbers, but in the playoffs, it was a pleasure to see him on the floor against the Spurs. Marion is a big time choke imo.

I also think the black/white thing goes in the other direction also.
Heck, I know it does. Everyone forgets how great Jack Sikma was

But what happened to him making everyone better? he stopped in the playoffs? Marions numbers were something that NASH got credit for but Marion got credit for the choking. I have always been astonished that Nash has achieved his status. He got this huge bump from "intangibles" (which are usually bullshit) because his numbers in the MVP seasons (15 and 18 points a game and 11 assists) are neither exceptional nor are they nearly as impactful as they should have been due to the D'antoni offense they came in. He got this nebulous credit for phoenix being a good regular season team yet seemed to escape unscathed when they invariably missed the finals once again. So his intangibles didnt work in the post season? He is a smart player who gets a lot out of his ability. He is quick and doesnt make a lot of bad plays. He is a good shooter and excellent passer. He is a really good player who should be a borderline Hall of Famer in a few years. Yet I heard some moron say he should be on the 2nd team of the Alltime NBA team. That is like putting Big Brown in the top 10 of alltime horses including Mr. Ed.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

But what happened to him making everyone better? he stopped in the playoffs? Marions numbers were something that NASH got credit for but Marion got credit for the choking. Yet I heard some moron say he should be on the 2nd team of the Alltime NBA team. That is like putting Big Brown in the top 10 of alltime horses including Mr. Ed.

In the playoffs Marion choked. Nash had as good as if not better numbers in the playoffs. As I said before the major problem Phoenix had in the playoffs was the Spurs. We had a great deal of trouble controlling Nash. Marion flat out missed shots in the playoffs that he made in the regular season.

On the other hand Nash's defense was so bad he made Tony Parker
look much better than he is. And Parker is good. So Parker could do
what he pleased in the playoffs. As I have stated before, I cant stand
PG's that cannot play D. So Nash is no world-beater for me. But to state (like Jacksond did) that Iverson moves the ball around like Nash on offense is offensively stupid. Nash is cohesive. Iverson... is a great scorer, but hardly a quarter back for an offense.

[GPK]

Chuck, you hit the nail on the head. Nash was nothing but a product of Dantoni's system, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by GPK

Chuck, you hit the nail on the head. Nash was nothing but a product of Dantoni's system, plain and simple.

Nothing but a product...
Do you remember Nash on Dallas?
When he was not injured, 2001-03?
He had some of his best scoring numbers with Dallas.

And he played/plays with a bunch of babies on Phoenix.
Amare (I care about #'s), Marion (I care about #'s).
Nash was the only guy on that team that could keep
his composure in the playoffs. The ONLY guy.
Even D'Antoni was a big crybaby that could not
keep his guys sitting on the bench.