6/28 (HOL): Gold Cup Day (4 stakes)

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I wonder if Tiago's people get the hint YET??? This horse doesn't run well on the junk. I thought the Suburban was a much better spot for him.

Yeah, the Swaps and Goodwood were horrendous efforts.

How close has he ever come to winning a race further than 9f? 4 lengths or so?

He's a wannabe Gulch.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Yeah, the Swaps and Goodwood were horrendous efforts.

How close has he ever come to winning a race further than 9f? 4 lengths or so?

He's a wannabe Gulch.

I thought the Goodwood was on regular dirt. As for the Swaps, beating a couple of billy goats does not make for a great effort, IMO.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I thought the Goodwood was on regular dirt.

Just to clarify, then, you were wrong.

And yet winning the SA Derby over King of the Roxy and Sam P. makes him a good dirt horse? Isn't it just as likely that Heatseeker (by synthetic sire extraordinaire Giant's Causeway) regressed in the Oaklawn Handicap, thus getting nipped by this 2nd rate horse that he normally has 3 or 4 lengths on?

Or did he have valid excuses in the Kentucky Derby, Belmont, and BC Classic, his other important dirt races?

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Just to clarify, then, you were wrong.

And yet winning the SA Derby over King of the Roxy and Sam P. makes him a good dirt horse? Isn't it just as likely that Heatseeker (by synthetic sire extraordinaire Giant's Causeway) regressed in the Oaklawn Handicap, thus getting nipped by this 2nd rate horse that he normally has 3 or 4 lengths on?

Or did he have valid excuses in the Kentucky Derby, Belmont, and BC Classic, his other important dirt races?

Well he did have valid excuses. He was facing Curlin, Rags to Riches, Street Sense, and Hard Spun.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Just to clarify, then, you were wrong.

And yet winning the SA Derby over King of the Roxy and Sam P. makes him a good dirt horse? Isn't it just as likely that Heatseeker (by synthetic sire extraordinaire Giant's Causeway) regressed in the Oaklawn Handicap, thus getting nipped by this 2nd rate horse that he normally has 3 or 4 lengths on?

Or did he have valid excuses in the Kentucky Derby, Belmont, and BC Classic, his other important dirt races?

Believe me, there is no way in the world that I would ever try to make an argument for Tiago being a good horse. I don't think he is. But I do, however, believe that he's shown himself to be much better on real dirt than on synthetics.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Believe me, there is no way in the world that I would ever try to make an argument for Tiago being a good horse. I don't think he is. But I do, however, believe that he's shown himself to be much better on real dirt than on synthetics.

I don't know that its that cut and dry, though I admit I haven't poured over his PPs lately, so maybe I'm missing something found inbetween the lines. Seems 2nd rate on both and definitely seems to lose any sort of stretch punch further than 9f. If I give him credit for anything, its that he can handle either surface with equal mediocrity (his sire could run on anything--but could also see out 10f).

Eventually that lugging in towards the rail habit is going to catch up with him soon, too.

[Bobby Fischer]

good run by Magnificience considering the track.


Had a feeling the speed would win again in the Gold Cup regardless of the talent levels of the different horses.

It's kind of weird. You see a horse like Mast Track kind of suit the track bias and win that race out on the speed, and you try to legitimize the horse and say things to yourself like; "I wonder if he could get into a good thing like that over those fast TURF courses on the west coast?" "maybe he could be like daytona and win some of those on the turf being the speed" ...
And then you realize he just won the Hollywood Gold Cup 10 furlongs 750k ... basically THE classic of the summer...

That synthetic race WAS as good as it gets. That WAS the big one.
He did it, no need to legitimize

and it just feels kind of weird again.