Street Sense Number

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

EPO is so 90's. It's like the stock market, by the time you hear about it, it is probably old news.

Yes, but it was the beginning of the explosion of " not so good horses running fast for a start or two ".

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Yes, but it was the beginning of the explosion of " not so good horses running fast for a start or two ".

Very true.

[jpops757]

Breaks the track recordand he is knocked for running so good and he wins only because he had the rail. What a bunch of crap. This horse is so good he makes his trip. If the rail gave him the win, why didnt AGS take it he was in front of SS and chose to go outside. Borel knew he had the horse to take the lane and win. Why do some just keep on knocking this horse when he performs.

[blackthroatedwind]

I love Street Sense, and was thrilled with his race today ( though Any Given Sunday was just as well ), but I am a little concerned that he's a " rail runner " in that his two very big efforts came by running up the fence. As someone mentioned earlier, he isn't likely to get that trip in the Derby, and perhaps he's one of those horses that runs his best when inside.

Not a knock...just a thought.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I am a little concerned that he's a " rail runner " in that his two very big efforts came by running up the fence. As someone mentioned earlier, he isn't likely to get that trip in the Derby, and perhaps he's one of those horses that runs his best when inside.

This is a very good point. He used to have more tactical speed but seems more effective as a one run closer. And we know how much luck they need to get things to break their way in the Derby scramble.

[Grits]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is a very good point. He used to have more tactical speed but seems more effective as a one run closer. And we know how much luck they need to get things to break their way in the Derby scramble.

And if he draws inside with that one run, his connections can kiss their Derby goodbye. And that would be horribly disappointing for this runner. I was elated today when he nosed on ahead of Pletcher's, AGS. I always am when someone, anyone . . . does.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I love Street Sense, and was thrilled with his race today ( though Any Given Sunday was just as well ), but I am a little concerned that he's a " rail runner " in that his two very big efforts came by running up the fence. As someone mentioned earlier, he isn't likely to get that trip in the Derby, and perhaps he's one of those horses that runs his best when inside.

Not a knock...just a thought.

I was thrilled with him today too. I'm going to enjoy seeing Nafzger getting this horse to the Derby. This is a fascinating exercise of horsemanship combined with a horse with actual talent and guts. Not trying to squeeze blood from a turnip like we've seen from some or a trainer with a talented horse that had no heart or was a head case. Usually they lack some tool don't they? Either in the trainer or the horse.

I'm not going to be critical about this rail thing. I think Street Sense was determined to gut this one out so why make it harder on him than you have to? Better that it happened now than the next race really. If the rail's sitting right there for the taking in a prep race, what's Borel supposed to do? Go outside when he doesn't have to just to prove a point? If it's the shortest way around and isn't obviously going to be too dead to help you, I just think it'd be kinda goofy to not take it. If he'd lost by a half length or something and been taken the long way we'd all be grumbling that he would've done better if he'd gone to the inside. The horse was obviously going to work hard regardless of where he was placed because he was determined to keep trying. It tells me if they can keep him from getting too over the top he'll be really gunning for it at the end of the Derby, just when you need it, plus he doesn't need to have a huge clear path to do it.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Merlinsky

I'm not going to be critical about this rail thing.

I think you are missing my point, and it's not an absolute one, but at least a possibility.

Some horses are " rail runners " which effectively means they basically need to be on the rail to do their best running and will sort of sulk if they aren't on the fence. The converse is that some horses don't like being inside, and run inside as if they are effectively " chicken ", and won't pass horses on the inside. Since the two big efforts we have seen from Street Sense have come while rallying on the rail I am offering this as at least a possibility.

[Merlinsky]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think you are missing my point, and it's not an absolute one, but at least a possibility.

Some horses are " rail runners " which effectively means they basically need to be on the rail to do their best running and will sort of sulk if they aren't on the fence. The converse is that some horses don't like being inside, and run inside as if they are effectively " chicken ", and won't pass horses on the inside. Since the two big efforts we have seen from Street Sense have come while rallying on the rail I am offering this as at least a possibility.

Oh I get what you mean, I just don't know that I would draw this conclusion with any level of confidence. Some folks grumbled that he might be a one run closer or are afraid he's a rail horse but quite simply until they do otherwise you don't know and why complain when a jockey does what makes sense? It's like we're trying to find flaws here--he saved too much ground, he's too fast, he's too gutsy... oh heaven forbid. He didn't need more than one run today so how could we know he wasn't capable of more than that (he's been tactical in the past right?) and he didn't need to go to the outside a mere two times in succession and months apart which doesn't really indicate a trend necessarily. Should we really think of what could just be coincidence as a weakness yet?

The rail's the shortest way around, can you blame Borel for taking it? I don't think Street Sense is likely to sulk but that's just my opinion. He seemed to take it personally that he was being challenged. I think if he sees a horse up ahead and he's on the outside, he'll be busting his tail to get there. At least we won't have to listen to 'was never looked in the eye' comments.

[Grits]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think you are missing my point, and it's not an absolute one, but at least a possibility.

Some horses are " rail runners " which effectively means they basically need to be on the rail to do their best running and will sort of sulk if they aren't on the fence. The converse is that some horses don't like being inside, and run inside as if they are effectively " chicken ", and won't pass horses on the inside. Since the two big efforts we have seen from Street Sense have come while rallying on the rail I am offering this as at least a possibility.

This is a long thread, and this being the original thought/possibility I think it fair to show BTW's first comment once again, as it DOES deal with psychology first. In that vein, I don't believe it qualifies to mark the last post as moot.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I see what you are saying and sure it's a possibility. But if he doesn't take the rail today and instead follows AGS I feel like he probably gets beat but still is right there. Like you know and it's been discussed a million times here, he didn't exactly sulk when prematurely moved at keeneland. he didn't finish as well but I feel like that was more to do with the trip and the way Keeneland played nearly all meet.

I don't hold the Keeneland race too much against him because of the pace of that race, they were all up and on a strong pace and he may have moved too early. It was his first two turn race. Borel kept him back a bit more in the BC and it worked better for him. I think that is the style that he will continue to employ.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I love Street Sense, and was thrilled with his race today ( though Any Given Sunday was just as well ), but I am a little concerned that he's a " rail runner " in that his two very big efforts came by running up the fence. As someone mentioned earlier, he isn't likely to get that trip in the Derby, and perhaps he's one of those horses that runs his best when inside.

Not a knock...just a thought.

Hey fat man,
I think you need to read again the post again that got you all worked up. What exactly does blackthroatedwind say in this post? He says he is "concerned" and that he thinks the horse is "perhaps" a horse that does his best running inside. He isn't knocking the horse, but bringing up a legitimate question. If he had come on here and posted, "Street Sense is a fraud, he can ONLY win with a rail trip," that would have been a different story.
Your argument seems to be that it is not even worth considering that his last two big performances have come on the rail. That does not make sense to me. Almost everything that happens in a horse's race career is worth considering.....especially something like this.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Hey fat man,
I think you need to read again the post again that got you all worked up. What exactly does blackthroatedwind say in this post? He says he is "concerned" and that he thinks the horse is "perhaps" a horse that does his best running inside. He isn't knocking the horse, but bringing up a legitimate question. If he had come on here and posted, "Street Sense is a fraud, he can ONLY win with a rail trip," that would have been a different story.
Your argument seems to be that it is not even worth considering that his last two big performances have come on the rail. That does not make sense to me. Almost everything that happens in a horse's race career is worth considering.....especially something like this.

Why does taking the best available route make the horse a possible rail runner (only)? Would you have preferred that he went around horses in Tampa? Would you have wanted a 3 or 4 wide trip in a 5 horse field (like Gomez in Cali)? Would that have allayed all concerns about this horses ability to run wide? Why is a good ride all of a sudden cause for concern?

I didn't misunderstand what he wrote. I just can see over analyzing.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Why does taking the best available route make the horse a possible rail runner (only)? Would you have preferred that he went around horses in Tampa? Would you have wanted a 3 or 4 wide trip in a 5 horse field (like Gomez in Cali)? Would that have allayed all concerns about this horses ability to run wide? Why is a good ride all of a sudden cause for concern?

I didn't misunderstand what he wrote. I just can see over analyzing.

I could respond by explaining, for about the fifth time, that I never made any conclusive observations, but merely offered a possibility, but since you have admitted that I am a " foil " of yours, and thus have admitted to trolling me, then there's really no reason to offer what you know to be the truth.