Paris wtf

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and here's some info on thought processes from ww2 and after, regarding who should be allowed in....

In the early months, and first few years after the war, beginning in mid-1945, [there were] only a very limited number of immigration visas to get into the United States.


Of all the [Holocaust] survivors in the camps, only a few thousand came in in [the] first year or so. To get a visa was a precious commodity, and there were immigration policymakers in Washington who were on record saying that they didn't think the Jews should be let in because they were "lazy people" or "entitled people" and they didn't want them in.

But there were many, many thousands of Nazi collaborators who got visas to the United States while the survivors did not — even though they had been, for instance, the head of a Nazi concentration camp, the warden at a camp, or the secret police chief in Lithuania who signed the death warrants for people. ...

The bulk of the people who got into the United States — some were from Germany itself, some in fact were senior officers in the Nazi party under Hitler — but more were the Nazi collaborators.

the times are different? not really. neither are the arguments made.

Did those collaborators get in while the war was still in progress? Clear out a space in Syria for the Refugees and provide protection. Allow them in and they certainly be infiltrated. But we know that when on of those with terror on their mind creates a horrific act those supporting allowing them in will either disappear from the debate or blame someone else for not keeping us safe.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jms62

Did those collaborators get in while the war was still in progress? Clear out a space in Syria for the Refugees and provide protection. Allow them in and they certainly be infiltrated. But we know that when on of those with terror on their mind creates a horrific act those supporting allowing them in will either disappear from the debate or blame someone else for not keeping us safe.

i'm not sure who got here while it was going on.
but i do know jews were turned away, and many ended up dying in concentration camps.
isis can try, with or without refugees (some already here by the way) to get over here.
every deed done can have both positive and negative consequences. all things have to be considered, and all we can do is try our best.
but i cannot countenance saying NO across the board, because something may happen.
if we considered what may happen, worst case scenario, with everything....well, no one would get out of bed in the morning.

but, yeah, best case would be if they all could be temporarily put somewhere, and can return home after.
but i have difficulty in just saying no-because i wouldn't want to be told that if i was one in need of help.
no one wants anyone here hurt or killed-no one.

[Danzig]

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/abdelhami...raid-officials

paris attack mastermind dead in the raid yesterday. thank goodness they got them before they could carry out another attack.


and....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...urn-them-away/

French President Francois Hollande declared on Wednesday that his country would accept 30,000 Syrian refugees over next two years. He announced this at a gathering of mayors from French cities, where he received a standing ovation.


"We have to reinforce our borders while remaining true to our values," the French president said.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by jms62

Did those collaborators get in while the war was still in progress? Clear out a space in Syria for the Refugees and provide protection. Allow them in and they certainly be infiltrated. But we know that when on of those with terror on their mind creates a horrific act those supporting allowing them in will either disappear from the debate or blame someone else for not keeping us safe.

No, the US gov't brought them in, whitewashed their backgrounds and sent them to work for NASA:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nazi-...program-2014-2

My stepmom can tell you stories about refugee camps (she and my brothers spent a year in one before being cleared to go to the US). They are NOT safe places. Especially for young women. And, from my stepmom's stories, the danger wasn't from the other refugees; it was from the men hired to (supposedly) protect the refugees.

[GenuineRisk]

The French are still committed to taking in refugees:

http://gawker.com/france-would-still...ess-1743284749

As the comments section said, "Ah, the French. Making us look even more like the backwards rubes we often are with that effortless grace and élan.... I blame the metric system."

(blah blah the French are racist too, yes, I know, I've been there. But this is how you give a middle finger to terrorism, not the cowering that the Governor of the great Welfare State of Alabama is doing)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

The French are still committed to taking in refugees:

http://gawker.com/france-would-still...ess-1743284749

As the comments section said, "Ah, the French. Making us look even more like the backwards rubes we often are with that effortless grace and élan.... I blame the metric system."

(blah blah the French are racist too, yes, I know, I've been there. But this is how you give a middle finger to terrorism, not the cowering that the Governor of the great Welfare State of Alabama is doing)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

No, the US gov't brought them in, whitewashed their backgrounds and sent them to work for NASA:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nazi-...program-2014-2

My stepmom can tell you stories about refugee camps (she and my brothers spent a year in one before being cleared to go to the US). They are NOT safe places. Especially for young women. And, from my stepmom's stories, the danger wasn't from the other refugees; it was from the men hired to (supposedly) protect the refugees.

thanks for posting, both the link and your brief story about the camp.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

thanks for posting, both the link and your brief story about the camp.

My stepmom doesn't talk much about those years (although she talks more about it now than she did 30 years ago when I first knew her), and when she does I can see why she's reluctant to- the stories are really upsetting. We don't push; we let her talk about it as much or little as she wants. My stepbrothers have never talked about it.

I can't fathom the kind of misery and fear that makes someone desperate enough to just pack up and start walking, with no idea what'll be at the other end.

[GenuineRisk]

The other thing is that most of the suspected attackers weren't refugees; they were Europeans who traveled to Syria and then came back:

http://jezebel.com/most-of-the-suspe...nat-1743507304

And, of course, the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were citizens of our ally, Saudi Arabia. They weren't refugees. All but one were here on tourist or business visas (1 on a student visa).

I don't see any GOP candidates or governors suggesting we not allow people in on tourist or business visas, despite the fact that, when one uses facts and not fear-mongering, that's where the danger has historically been, not in refugees.

For that matter, since 2002, white supremacists have killed more people in terrorist attacks in the USA than Muslim radicals. But none of the candidates or governors are talking about that, either.

[Rudeboyelvis]

OMG evil white people. Again. Yawn.