Race to breed or breed to race?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Not complimenting or criticizing Todd but what do you think the value of all his horses ( and I am including every multi-million dollar baby ) is compared to the value of " the next closest guy's " stable?

Considering all the expensive young horses Pletcher gets don't you find it a little amazing that between the Delta Jackpot and the 4 2YO Stakes at Aqueduct and Churchill Thanksgiving weekend that Todd had only one total entrant?

Anyhow, sorry Linny for deviating from your topic, and I agree with Todd's statement. Hell, if they win one TC race these days we never see them again....unless they're bums like Jazil or Giacomo.

He may well get the best horses by far, but that's part of a trainer's job. As I've posted many times, it takes a lot to be a really successful trainer. There's a lot more to it than just being a good trainer. They need to have good people skills, they need to be well organized, they need to hire good help, they need to know how to best utilize their vets, they need to be able to attract big owners, etc. Todd appears to do all these things incredibly well. I assume that he is an extremely bright guy.

I can't knock him for not winning any particular race. The guy wins practically everything. How many stakes races has he won this year? How many graded stakes races has he won? He's won an incredible number of them. He's probably won 100 stakes races. I can't knock him for not winning any particular race. I think his overall numbers are the best by far.

The way he does it is another question. I have no idea how he does it. But when someone's performance is too good to be true(such as Barry Bonds), you do have to wonder how they do it. I'm not saying that he's doing anything wrong. I have no idea. I admit that I do wonder about it though.

I think we will see a TC horse at some point in time. It doesn't matter if a horse wins one leg of the TC or all three....if the horse isnt gelded then their career is over after the Breeders Cup. Now there are the excpetions like Giacomo. What I hope is that a gelding wins the TC. Now that would be amazing. But I think the lure of the TC is important to the sport.

When it comes to Pletcher, it would real interesting to see what his numbers are compared to the next trainer when it comes to number of starters in a stakes race, what is the value of his horses in his barn etc etc. I think if you find that information out and do a comparative analysis then we will find that he is doing about average. What I mean is that he should be where he is based on what he has and gets. For example, Todd has had 1127 starters and has made $26,276,724 or $23,315 per starter. Albertrani has had 180 starters and has made $5,243,236 or $29,129 per starter (I think my math is right). Lets say you give Albertrani 1127 with an avg return of $29,129 per starter...that is earnings of $32,828,383. So it is all relative.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I think we will see a TC horse at some point in time. It doesn't matter if a horse wins one leg of the TC or all three....if the horse isnt gelded then their career is over after the Breeders Cup. Now there are the excpetions like Giacomo. What I hope is that a gelding wins the TC. Now that would be amazing. But I think the lure of the TC is important to the sport.

When it comes to Pletcher, it would real interesting to see what his numbers are compared to the next trainer when it comes to number of starters in a stakes race, what is the value of his horses in his barn etc etc. I think if you find that information out and do a comparative analysis then we will find that he is doing about average. What I mean is that he should be where he is based on what he has and gets. For example, Todd has had 1127 starters and has made $26,276,724 or $23,315 per starter. Albertrani has had 180 starters and has made $5,243,236 or $29,129 per starter (I think my math is right). Lets say you give Albertrani 1127 with an avg return of $29,129 per starter...that is earnings of $32,828,383. So it is all relative.

That's a good point. I would be curious to see where the other trainers rank in terms of average earnings per starter. I would have to think that very few can match Todd. But even the average amount earned per starter can be a very misleadin figure for a number of reasons. There are several things that can distort the results in either direction. If a guy has a really small barn but happened to win one really big race, that could make his average earnings per starter be very high, and possibly higher than Pletcher's.

On the other hand, you would expect Pletcher's earning per starter to be very high compared to other trainers since his horses are much more expensive than most trainers. There are so many factors to consider.

I will tell you one thing. Pletcher has an excellent win percenatge for any size barn, but especially for a large barn. He is winning with 25% of his starters. This is an incredible number. On the other hand, you could argue that his win percentage should be much higher than most guys because he has better horses. But even when you consider that he has the best horses, I still think his win percenatge is very impressive.