Exchange wagering this Summer in NJ?

[Cannon Shell]

http://www.drf.com/news/new-jersey-h...hange-wagering

[Calzone Lord]

All of the nonsense about how it might lead to more allegations of race fixing...that was once the main battle cry of those who opposed "exotic wagers" like the trifecta.

Relatively speaking, horse racing has a good public image, and it should have a great one.

Look at the 1920's. Horses were commonly drugged with very hard stuff, like Heroin, for performance enhancing purposes.

Race fixing actually existed in those days. There were scandals involving "Midnight Riders" -- the Night Riders would take a horse in-tomorrow out of their stall and ride them to exhaustion, so they could bet against said horse the next day.

A horse like Old Rosebud (2-year-old champion, runaway Kentucky Derby winner, Horse of the Year as an older horse, a horse in some ways more popular than Man O' War, and he breaks down in a claiming race at age 11 and is euthanized at Aqueduct)

Technology sucked. You had to lug Chart Books around with you and buy a DRF to get decent past performances. The poor tracks, they had no simulcasting and slots revenue.

Adjusted for inflation, it cost $75 just for general admission at a New York track. Want to go to Aqueduct on a Thursday? Pay $75 just to get in.

The poor tracks, and poor horse racing. However did they manage to dominate the Sports Pages and offer fantastic purses? They even made celebrities out of dozens of their betting customers.

Betting exchanges are a step in the right direction. However, every entity in racing is out for themselves and their piece of the pie, and the long term best interest of the game always suffers because of it.

[Duvalier]

"Midnight Riders" I've never heard of that...that's some interesting stuff. Were there any other not so well known fixes back in those days?

[randallscott35]

I'm sure making an exchange only open to one state will be a huge success. Who wants to take my action on 10 maiden claimers at Monmouth. I will give you 5-1 on the first Cibelli runner you see in there...On second thought, let me talk to her vet first.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

I'm sure making an exchange only open to one state will be a huge success. Who wants to take my action on 10 maiden claimers at Monmouth. I will give you 5-1 on the first Cibelli runner you see in there...On second thought, let me talk to her vet first.

They aren't legal in any other states yet.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

They aren't legal in any other states yet.

Yes Chuck. Reread my first sentence.

[Calzone Lord]

Originally Posted by Duvalier

"Midnight Riders" I've never heard of that...that's some interesting stuff. Were there any other not so well known fixes back in those days?

Fixes weren't infrequent, relatively speaking. Pittsburgh Phil is credited in a Beyer book for bribing a jockey to be honest and paying him for wins. However, that was actually a method first used by Plunger Walton decades before him. In fact, The Albany Law site has a few pages on Plunger Walton doing exactly that. Pittsburgh Phil merely used the same method at a smaller track known for larceny.

I don't believe fixed races ever really happen anymore. Certainly not at the big tracks, or even the mid level tracks. If they happen, it's at a lesser track.

If you know how to play the offshore game, you can get good action offshore on some pretty cheap tracks.

Here's the famous bookmaker, horse bettor, and horse owner (he owned Roseben) Davy Johnson making a joke about one of the Night Riding incidents in New York that got a conviction...

[Duvalier]

That's awesome. Some real colorful characters back then. Someone should make an HBO type show from back in that day along the lines of Boardwalk Empire.

[Calzone Lord]

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Yes Chuck. Reread my first sentence.

So why complain about it?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

So why complain about it?

I think his point was that the market will be very thin being only NJ. Involved.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by jms62

I think his point was that the market will be very thin being only NJ. Involved.

Actually, it would seem utilizing New Jersey as a highly controlled test tube for Exchanges is an ideal introduction to the concept here. The rest of the jurisdictions and industry can see what works and what might need to be adjusted for a successful application sport-wide. The biggest issue was and is how much the exchange will contribute toward 'bricks and mortar' and if it's enough to offset what might come out of the part-mutual pools. Dennis Drazin on ATR later today to discuss it.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

I think his point was that the market will be very thin being only NJ. Involved.

Regardless of the validity of your interpretation of his intent it just gets tiresome when seemingly there is negativity attached to every racing topic, even the likely positive developments.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Regardless of the validity of your interpretation of his intent it just gets tiresome when seemingly there is negativity attached to every racing topic, even the likely positive developments.

Ridiculous. I want things to succeed. I live in NJ. I will participate if the numbers are right. That being said, Betfair own TVG and I can tell you with first hand knowledge that they are awful. And that is our only option in this state, legally. So having confidence in them running this thing is going to be wait and see.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Ridiculous. I want things to succeed. I live in NJ. I will participate if the numbers are right. That being said, Betfair own TVG and I can tell you with first hand knowledge that they are awful. And that is our only option in this state, legally. So having confidence in them running this thing is going to be wait and see.

Betfair has nothing to do with it being available in just one state.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Actually, it would seem utilizing New Jersey as a highly controlled test tube for Exchanges is an ideal introduction to the concept here. The rest of the jurisdictions and industry can see what works and what might need to be adjusted for a successful application sport-wide. The biggest issue was and is how much the exchange will contribute toward 'bricks and mortar' and if it's enough to offset what might come out of the part-mutual pools. Dennis Drazin on ATR later today to discuss it.

I want this so badly to succeed. My fear is that politicians from other jurisdictions will deem it a failure based upon revenue generated within NJ without considering for a second that it is because only players from within one state are participating.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

Ridiculous. I want things to succeed. I live in NJ. I will participate if the numbers are right. That being said, Betfair own TVG and I can tell you with first hand knowledge that they are awful. And that is our only option in this state, legally. So having confidence in them running this thing is going to be wait and see.

How are they awful? I've had nothing but positive experiences with them.

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by jms62

I want this so badly to succeed. My fear is that politicians from other jurisdictions will deem it a failure based upon revenue generated within NJ without considering for a second that it is because only players from within one state are participating.

Exactly....Look at the numbers from online gambling that started in Nov. Already behind projections though much of that is probably the Obamacare like sites that don't even have many banks participating.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...4-million.html

[randallscott35]

Originally Posted by jms62

How are they awful? I've had nothing but positive experiences with them.

You mean the .1% rebate is to die for? The interface when it was just 4njbets was far better. I've also found their withdrawal process to be far less smooth than the deposit process which is quite annoying. Their on air talent is not talented...should I go on.

[Benny]

Originally Posted by randallscott35

You mean the .1% rebate is to die for? The interface when it was just 4njbets was far better. I've also found their withdrawal process to be far less smooth than the deposit process which is quite annoying. Their on air talent is not talented...should I go on.

I agree with Randall, funny how Cristy in his State of the State was all over "Choice", but makes a deal that limits ADW's to TVG only, = no choice.

LEts list the case vs TVG in New Jersey

- virtual non existant rebates of $ 5 per $2500 bet.
- withdrawal of $$ is very s l o w, compared to instant deposits, need proof from bank that $ is there.- often bet back $$ i wanted to withdraw, funny how that works
-poorly designed interface where the next race of a track isnot advanced to automatically.
- very slow update of will pay info, and pull down feature to see exacta and DD info - i must use other sources for this info
- wagering pad that floats and changes in size which one must manipulate.
- having list of featured tracks vs ones you want, which must be changed
- very small print size for these old eyes in results scratches etc
-few betting promotions and those few are atrocious
- limit of video to 10 hours per month unless betting level is reached
- betting timing is 2 minutes fast compared others.
- etc. etc etc


That said it is an improvement over the old site, but eons behind other ADW platforms. They are now up from the Model T, to an Edsel !

They have no incentive to provide more as the clientle has no other option except off shore. Our way or nothing,


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