NYRA Fanchise Recommendation

Originally Posted by ELA

Andy, I agree and know that. My point, or should I say my concern is -- is it truly meaningless? Could there be ramifications, lawsuits, who knows what -- if the committee makes a recommendation, Spitzer moves into his office next year and as he is unpacking says "thanks for the recommendation, but I am going with . . ." (a different bidder). How does that play out?

At this stage I think the last thing the racing industry needs -- nationwide -- is more factionalization. It is not good for the industry in any way, shape or form. I do hope it's meaningless -- with NO ramifications.

Eric

Ad Hoc committees can be powerful depending who is on them. But basically the "gov't" will do what they want and ignore an independent ad hoc.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I think you are right. But when you try to operate with more money then you bring in then you need to make changes in operating costs. To my knowledge, this has never been done. They have not funded their pension and they pay their taxes late. To me it is a bad business model that needs some fixing. I have yet to see anyone come up with a new business model.

While I agree with you conceptually, we are all examing this from a great distance. NYRA has not been able to operate with the current amount of revenue collected. Who is to say that Jack Welch or anyone else for that matter could do any better, worse, different, etc? That is not about skills, or anything of the like. And, it might not be about cutting operating costs. Certain costs are fixed and unavoidable. Many are not of course and sure there should have been changes. There were some but yes, probably not enough. I just don't think that would have solved the problem. The problem was bigger -- outside, external elements.

It would be futile to debate business accumen and management styles on this of course. I think the business model is a more global issue, not just about how NYRA is run.

Eric

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by ELA

While I agree with you conceptually, we are all examing this from a great distance. NYRA has not been able to operate with the current amount of revenue collected. Who is to say that Jack Welch or anyone else for that matter could do any better, worse, different, etc? That is not about skills, or anything of the like. And, it might not be about cutting operating costs. Certain costs are fixed and unavoidable. Many are not of course and sure there should have been changes. There were some but yes, probably not enough. I just don't think that would have solved the problem. The problem was bigger -- outside, external elements.

It would be futile to debate business accumen and management styles on this of course. I think the business model is a more global issue, not just about how NYRA is run.

Eric

Eric,
You've given lots of insight. Thanks.
IMHO there are plenty of "games" being played. This is to the detriment of NY racing.
Slots are a draw, but not the total answer. Last year, at Finger Lakes where one of mine runs, there were many letters written and signed by myself and many others, where the hope was to increase purses and put in a turf course with the money generated by the slots. You see how that went down.
Too many fingers are grabbing that pie.
Games, games, and more games do not serve the bettors, horsemen, or frankly, the people of NY. I really hope this nonsense ends soon.
DTS

Originally Posted by ELA

While I agree with you conceptually, we are all examing this from a great distance. NYRA has not been able to operate with the current amount of revenue collected. Who is to say that Jack Welch or anyone else for that matter could do any better, worse, different, etc? That is not about skills, or anything of the like. And, it might not be about cutting operating costs. Certain costs are fixed and unavoidable. Many are not of course and sure there should have been changes. There were some but yes, probably not enough. I just don't think that would have solved the problem. The problem was bigger -- outside, external elements.

It would be futile to debate business accumen and management styles on this of course. I think the business model is a more global issue, not just about how NYRA is run.

Eric

I think the NYRA business model would make a great case study. You have everything to deal with...Unions, Gov't, Non-Profit status. But businesses have got to be able to adapt and be flexible. I dont think the NYRA has done that--may or maynot be their fault. But, I don't see them trying to change anything. It is status quo. I like the NYRA and hope they get everything cleared up.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by ELA

Andy, who is "They" and "them" -- ??? Thanks.

Eric

They is NYRA.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

They is NYRA.

Thanks for the clarification. So, maybe I am missing something or drawing a real mental blank here, but why does claiming land ownership -- which I believe NYRA is still standing by there original claim -- disqualify them from being the one who the committee recommends? Thanks again.

Eric

[Hickory Hill Hoff]

Originally Posted by oracle80

This whole thing just stinks, and has for so long.
Last night I'm channel surfing and get to our OTB channel and on teh screen is Yonkers raceway. They were closed for like 18 months for "remodeling".
The point is that heres this harness track that was on the verge of extinction and here they are up and running with slots.
Saratoga Harness has had them forever it seems, Vernon Downs was closed and shuttered and bankrupt(its in central NY state) and now they are also open and racing with slots humming.
Monticello is like the worst place on the planet, and they have slots up and running(harness track about 90 miles away from NYC), Finger Lakes has had them a long time, and on my way home from Kentucky I pulled off the Buffalo exit to go to the harness track there for the first time in my life to catch the last few from Aqu and CD the day after the BC and to my shock, all these cars were in the parking lot and when I walked inside there were slots everywhere.
Yonkers, Monticello, Vernon Downs, Buffalo, Finger lakes, and Saratoga Harness all have slots in place but noone will approve NYRA's at Aqueduct? Where they would reap the most money?
Its been a disgusting display of politics and anyone with a brain can see that political forces motivated by special interest groups have done everything they can to try and force NYRA under. There is no way that these slots shouldn't be running, and thats sure not NYRA's fault. Its a disgrace.

I said it from the beginning, THIS WHOLE THING is out of politics in N.Y.
Now, that "starts day #1" governor" will be in power, things SHOULD straight out or will they??? I STILL haven't found anybody who thinks NYRA's on-track product is so bad, so why the need for change? Will it REALLY be better if someone else runs N.Y. racing? I still think, things "down the road" WILL be worse! As for the horseman, NOTHING is stopping those who don't like racing in N.Y. run by NYRA to go elsewhere. I've been around the game for 20 years, NYRA has been worse in that time more than the last six years. I really think that some on this site, have just an "axe" to grind with them. They ALWAYS complain about NYRA, but STILL benefit from them. Complain, complain...if you don't like it...don't play here! The politicians are to blame here and no one else. They think they'll get more of the "pie" with someone else running the show. If the "new people" fail, WHO will you NYRA haters blame next.....

Regardless, NYRA owns the land, buildings, improvements that are involved. They have been paying taxes on such for years with NO tax breaks whatsoever. NYRA obviously has made somebody mad enough to try to whack them.

I believe that the bankruptcy filing by NYRA was a defensive position to protect their assets (the tracks). This battle is far from over. Unfortunantly, New York racing is going to take the brunt of the damage, as is the entire industry.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by TeddyRex

Regardless, NYRA owns the land, buildings, improvements that are involved. They have been paying taxes on such for years with NO tax breaks whatsoever. NYRA obviously has made somebody mad enough to try to whack them.

I believe that the bankruptcy filing by NYRA was a defensive position to protect their assets (the tracks). This battle is far from over. Unfortunantly, New York racing is going to take the brunt of the damage, as is the entire industry.

I am not disputing that NYRA owns the land. Actually, I don't have an opinion either way as I have never seen any documentation supporting either side's arguement or position. However, the mere act of paying the taxes, well, that does not constitute ownership. There are many arrangements, agreements, etc. where a non-owner can and does pay taxes.

I did read one article, I don't remember who wrote it -- but he was an attorney -- that explained NYRA's arrangement with the State of NY was a "life estate", however there was some sort of arrangement as to what would happen with the land at the end of the term certain on the life estate, or the franchise -- I do remember which. I wish I had the article or could find it, but regardless, it was a good one.

Eric

I think the The Mayor of Saratoga was on that committee.
Shes from Montana and what she knows about racing you could write on the back of a postage stamp.
She don't know much about anything else either.

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I think the The Mayor of Saratoga was on that committee.
Shes from Montana and what she knows about racing you could write on the back of a postage stamp.
She don't know much about anything else either.

So was the owner of Funny Cide. I think his opinion means a little more than yours. BYE BYE NYRA.

Under a complex scoring system, Excelsior scored 94.6 in areas that included integrity and responsibility, financial viability and details that included plans for renovations of tracks and how to improving the racing industry while attracting more bettors to tracks. Empire scored 93 and NYRA scored 76.5 points, despite attracting no votes for first or second place under the categories of "integrity" and "details of the proposals."


The real question is how did NYRA even get 76.5 points? They must get points for finishing 3rd in a 3 horse race, just like the last place finisher getting paid in a 3 horse race.

Originally Posted by Revolution

So was the owner of Funny Cide. I think his opinion means a little more than yours. BYE BYE NYRA.

Under a complex scoring system, Excelsior scored 94.6 in areas that included integrity and responsibility, financial viability and details that included plans for renovations of tracks and how to improving the racing industry while attracting more bettors to tracks. Empire scored 93 and NYRA scored 76.5 points, despite attracting no votes for first or second place under the categories of "integrity" and "details of the proposals."


The real question is how did NYRA even get 76.5 points? They must get points for finishing 3rd in a 3 horse race, just like the last place finisher getting paid in a 3 horse race.

Owning part of Funny Cide makes you qualified to asess Ny racing's future?
Guy named Gus who wears a plaid coat owns part of him as well, was he on the committee also?

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I think the The Mayor of Saratoga was on that committee.
Shes from Montana and what she knows about racing you could write on the back of a postage stamp.
She don't know much about anything else either.

you should run for office.

get TKFB to endorse you.

get yourself a boss hog like car with a megaphone.

yes, you should run for office, most definitely.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Eric,
You've given lots of insight. Thanks.
IMHO there are plenty of "games" being played. This is to the detriment of NY racing.
Slots are a draw, but not the total answer. Last year, at Finger Lakes where one of mine runs, there were many letters written and signed by myself and many others, where the hope was to increase purses and put in a turf course with the money generated by the slots. You see how that went down.
Too many fingers are grabbing that pie.
Games, games, and more games do not serve the bettors, horsemen, or frankly, the people of NY. I really hope this nonsense ends soon.
DTS

I don't see the Finger Lakes situation the same way others do. Finger Lakes is owned by Delaware North -- one of the largest privately held corporations in the world. When there was money "available" to be put back into the facility, very simply, there was an ROI/ROR decision to make. It wasn't a case of too many fingers -- it was a case of for-profit management looking to spend money where they made it and where they are certain they will get a ROI/ROR. That can be a very common problem with VLT's.

Track management/owners must be obligated and must commit to putting money back into the racing side of the facility, the backstretch, etc. and of course purses. We cannot let track management/owners pass the buck -- or in this case the bill -- back to horsemen, the horsemens associations and others by saying those improvements should be paid for out of their end (the horsemen's end). Then the track management/owners are not in the racing game any longer. They are truly casino operators.

Like I said, the answer, IMHO, is not just and exclusively in VLT's. It is more global than that. It is about VLT's, alternative revenue sources, and all of the other things I mentioned.

Eric