dear bernardini fans....

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Good horses lose races, he lost a race to a very very nice horse. A horse whos only lost one race, and that race being to the best horse running on the planet. He lost to an older horse, he lost to a proven horse, he lost to a fresh horse? He didnt pack it in, he didnt get over that track well, he wasnt the same horse that ran previous weeks. Hes probably at the end of his rope and he still dug in and gave a champions effort. Bernardini fans have nothing to be ashamed of, nor does the horse, or his connections. He tried and just got beat by a fresher horse.

Coming within a length of winning the BCC I think you can't really say that he didn't get over the track well or that he wasn't the same horse he had been. Everything else you said I agree with.

The outcome wasn't the same as in previous weeks due mainly I believe to this being a full field of much more accomplished runners than he has faced in the past. You may not want to believe it but this is a big determining factor in the outcome. It was a learning experience for him. He never faced the type of adversity that he faced yesterday, thats all. He did so quite admirably. It seems that many just don't pay attention to the way races are run.

[The Bid]

To be honest after watching him through the onset of the race I thought he was getting nothing, he gamed his way over a surface he didnt care for. If you watch the race again you can see Javier asking him to pick it up about half way down the back stretch. He either didnt like the going, or he was just flat. Either way that wasnt the same horse that trounced foes in his previous starts. Invasor is a nice horse, a very nice horse, but I think Bernardini is as advertised. I would love to see him come back for a 4 year old season. In my opinion he was up against it today, he was due to bounce, the field was full of talent, he was out of his element, and he was up against older. You combine that with what I saw as a general dislike for the surface and he ran pretty damn good.

[Danzig]

he actually ran the same time as he did in the gold cup. difference was that the horses yesterday could hang with him, unlike those in his previous starts.
but i couldn't believe it when i saw the last half took them over 51 seconds to cover. that's pretty bad.

[The Bid]

He may have ran the same time, but he didnt run the same race. He was never comfortable.

[Danzig]

i guess not, he was probably wondering what all those other horses were doing around him!
if he ran his standard race, well it just wasn't good enough yesterday. the time of the race fits in with his previous efforts. i think we saw bernies usual race, it just wasn't the same outcome.

[The Bid]

Danzig, If this races numbers come out like his previous I will be shocked. You didnt see his previous races, you saw a bounce, and a horse who disliked a surface. You also saw a very nice race by invasor, however Im putting the beyer at 104.


Revised. Tanner just posted and I pulled the PP of Bernardini. How can that number 115 be correct?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Danzig, If this races numbers come out like his previous I will be shocked. You didnt see his previous races, you saw a bounce, and a horse who disliked a surface. You also saw a very nice race by invasor, however Im putting the beyer at 104.


Revised. Tanner just posted and I pulled the PP of Bernardini. How can that number 115 be correct?

How can it be correct? Please refer to the many previous posts by myself and others regarding the way races are run and the effect of competition.
Bottom line is he did take to the track, he ran his race, an extraordinary race, and just lost to another very good horse. The only people puzzled by this or scratching their heads are the ones who annointed him before he was fully proven out. Anyone could see he was an exceptionally talented horse but some of us wanted to wait and see what happened when he ran against the best before assuming he was the greatest thing we've ever seen.

[The Bid]

Jim, its not right, 108 for invasor 107 for Dini

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Jim, its not right, 108 for invasor 107 for Dini

Okay, but same thinking still applies despite the lower numbers for the entire field. The times and track condition were nothing if not unusual yesterday.

[2MinsToPost]

Does anybody think that; hypothetically speaking, the accident had not occured in Race 8 that maybe the outcome would have been different? Was Javier's head on right, 100%?

[The Bid]

You realize they went over the track before the Distaff, right? I heard they scraped the top down, that would change the variant, and condition. Jim, I still do not think he handled the surface, among other things. I think he was in deep, due to bounce, but I didnt see a comfortable horse half way up the backside. Im not really even a huge fan of Dini, Im just being realistic with his excuses.

Undoubtedly Javy asked for his all out run a little too soon. I dont think it would have mattered, he wasnt the same. I think Invasor still passes, even if timed PERFECT.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Danzig, If this races numbers come out like his previous I will be shocked. You didnt see his previous races, you saw a bounce, and a horse who disliked a surface. You also saw a very nice race by invasor, however Im putting the beyer at 104.


Revised. Tanner just posted and I pulled the PP of Bernardini. How can that number 115 be correct?

no, i saw none of that. i didn't think he looked uncomfortable, esp when he made his move around the turn. uncomfortable horses that bounce and dislike the surface don't finish second in the bcc! he ran his race, but the comp he faced previously was nothing like yesterdays. tried and true veterans, bern the most lightly raced of the bunch.


i'd love to see him try again next year, unlike flower alley and others like him, i think bernie would be better than ever!!!!--along the lines of alysheba, hoty at four after losing the classic to ferdinand.
i'd like to see the top three from yesterday come back, but what are the odds of that happening??

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by The Bid

You realize they went over the track before the Distaff, right? I heard they scraped the top down, that would change the variant, and condition. Jim, I still do not think he handled the surface, among other things. I think he was in deep, due to bounce, but I didnt see a comfortable horse half way up the backside. Im not really even a huge fan of Dini, Im just being realistic with his excuses.

Undoubtedly Javy asked for his all out run a little too soon. I dont think it would have mattered, he wasnt the same. I think Invasor still passes, even if timed PERFECT.

I agree about Invasor getting by him no matter the timing of Javiers move.
This is the kind of racing experience that could give Bernardini the experience and foundation to even move forward from were he was, which is a scary prospect.

I just don't agree with giving him any excuses about a bounce or not holding the track, etc. They all ran on the same track and if Bernardini uses bounce as an excuse then I guess we'll have to also say that Invasor would have also performed better had he not been coming off such a long layoff and missing his last start with a fever.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by avance2000

1) sorry you feel that way.
2) i don't understand the maurlakana thing.
3) was my post a bit extreme? yes. normally i would never criticize a horse for running second in the bcc. it is certainly quite an accomplishment. let me say it again.......bernardini is a good horse. the reason i felt so strongly about it......and the reason for such an extreme post on my part......was because i felt it was called for because of the piles of idiotically stupid junk we have been reading on here for months about this horse. they made it seem like he couldn't possibly finish second.
4) i have respect for you, regardless of what you may think of me. you were certainly in the bern camp, but you were not one of the more extreme ones. if you feel that calling me names such as "clown" is the best way to go.....fine.

Weren't you touting Mauralakana all week or was that someone else?

You're right though, I was out of line and am sorry for spazzing on you.

turns out they was wrong...
he's not all that & and bag of funyuns
Barbaro would have ended up being the better horse
I think he could have handled Invasor
but we know for sure about Bernardini, LMAO!!!

[Pedigree Ann]

Through all this I was reminded of 1989, when Easy Goer was winning all those races in New York with the same sort of ease that Bernardini had this summer. After the Belmont, he won the Whitney, the Travers, the Woodward and the JCG Cup, which is a bigger and better list than Bernadini racked up. Tom Durkin proclaimed him New York's Horse of the Year. The East Coasters could NOT believe that their darling could be beaten again by that scrawny black thing from California, which had been run down in CA by Prized in a G1 at 10f since. Surprise, surprise, Sunday Silence beat Easy Goer again and Prized displayed his quality by winning the Turf over elders in his first turf outing.

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

Originally Posted by avance2000

oops. forgot the withers was a G3. that gives bern 5 to invasor's 4.
i'll still take 4 with the classic to 5 without.

you got it ..you called it congrats...dini moved to soon and invasor was game as they come..

[Bernardini]

Originally Posted by avance2000

.....take it. that is all i can say. take it. you owe us that. us rational people had to listen to your bs for a long time. "he was as good as secretariat. he was way better than barbaro. well guess what......he was not.
i fully expect people to attack me for "ripping" bernardini after that race and his defenders may blast me for this post. i'm fine with that, in part because - as my signature this last week probably reveals - i had a nice day at the windows today. but the bottom line is that we had to listen to your irrational and unjustified comments about this horse for months. now sit back and let us rational people take the stage for awhile. you were flat-wrong. when your boy met a quality animal he folded up like a cheap suit.
he is no invasor. he is no barbaro. secretariat? it isn't even worth discussing.
the best horse won today. there is no question about that....and i'm not just saying it after the fact.....i have been saying it on this board for awhile.

absolute respect for invasor, I try not to compare two different horses from two different eras but just like you cashed in today, I was cashing in on Preakness !! when the world was riding on Barbaro(unfortunately i can never prove that Bernardini was better than Barbaro and neither can you). Im assuming Secretariat lost about five times, and at least once didnt hit the board. Greatness?? I would suggest Citation. Look up his career stats..

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Well,when people were telling others that hoped they played against the horse(so they could make even more,)I thought it was unjustified.Anytime you change tracks,and /or a horse's level of competition,that horse can fail.We also were seeing an increase in field size that could get some horses out of their comfort zone.There are just a lot of things that make the chances of failure more likely,and if they exist on raceday,then your chances of getting beat go up.

Exactly. It would take a super horse to justify 1.1-1 odds against that field. (I wasn't overly impressed with the field, but it still would require a hugely dominant fav to be 1.1-1.) Bernardini had not shown enough to justify those odds.

I tried to explain that to Pillow Pants, but he only encouraged me to bet more against Bernardini. ;>)

--Dunbar

[Dunbar]

As far as the excuses for Bernardini, too bad the dini-fans here can't be as gracious as Albertrani was after the race. He simply said that Invasor was a better horse yesterday.

--Dunbar